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EPISODE 13

Spray Foam Technology and Innovation with Ben Brown, President and CEO of Natural Polymers, LLC

June 2020  | 39:20

The people that are leading the way in spray foam innovation are leading the way in the market place right now.

On this episode, Travis and Don welcome Ben Brown, President and CEO of Natural Polymers. Ben has been working behind the scenes for 22 years to make the chemicals in your spray foam more efficient, better for the environment and better for your customers. Ben takes you in the laboratory and the research and development room to show you the past, present and future of spray foam technology.

Natural Polymers LLC is dedicated to the development of high-quality Urethane Systems with low VOC signatures and an environmentally friendly, raw material base. Their petroleum and natural-based products are third-party tested, meeting and often times exceeding industry standards.

3:26 – Working with the chemicals behind your favorite spray foam

6:57 – Dinosaurs of the early days of spray foam

11:49 – How Ben has made spray foam more efficient and safer through technologies like Natural-Therm Zero Plus

17:53 – When an R-Value isn’t exactly as advertised

21:54 – Why Ben is leading his chemists out of the lab and into the field

25:46 – What’s the future market for new spray foam technology?

29:27 – How Natural Polymers is scaling up and still focusing on quality products.

33:17 – What’s the draw to Natural Polymers LLC?

Season 1, Episode 13 Transcript

RVAL007 Ben Brown.mp3 transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

RVAL007 Ben Brown.mp3 was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best audio automated transcription service in 2020. Our automated transcription algorithms works with many of the popular audio file formats.

Various:
This is the one and only the original podcasts where you can find yours and your business’s true value. You’re listening to our value brought to you by America’s insulations source, Idei Distributors. You want to hear from the best contractor suppliers and consultants that dedicate themselves to more than just survival in the business world. Industry professionals that are dedicated to excellence in every aspect of their business. Our value has Amala here to share that same motivation and knowledge with you. Tune in and grow more successful, profitable, educated and recognized business. Listen to the Value podcast to become the industry leader in your market. Find your value with our value. Hello and welcome.

Travis Pankake:
This is Travis Pancake, your host, alongside my co-host, Don Clymer. How’s it going today, Danny?

Don Clymer:
It is going good. Beautiful day here in Colorado Springs. Nice. 70 degrees. Sun is shining and the dogs are barking out in the backyard. So I hope you can hear him, but it’s going good. Despite what’s going on in the outside world, only to hear you’re supposed to get, what, five inches of snow coming up? Yeah, yeah. It’s a I don’t think the kids will be hunting Easter eggs outside. That’s for sure. The long. I think this is the last nice day we get.

Travis Pankake:
Well done. What are we doing today? Who are we talking to?

Don Clymer:
We actually have one of our sponsors on a good friend, a true partner to Idei Ben Brown with natural polymers. You know, we’ve been doing business with Dan for for a while, couple years now. And like I said, just become a good friend to all of Idei. True partner has some of the best products that we’ve we’ve bought in years. And you kind of surprise me, we haven’t had him on the show yet. Whoops. No time like the present. Yeah. Yeah. So we got we got Ben Brown Natural Polymers. You can find them at Natural Polymers, LLC eCom on the web. We’ll have some links in the description below.

Don Clymer:
And Ben is sitting there at his office in West Chicago, Illinois, with his German shepherd, Gus. So we might get a special guest appearance by Gus. But, Ben, welcome to the show. Glad to have you on finally. It’s been a long time coming. Thanks for having me on today. Guys, I really appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. Let’s, um, let’s just kind of get into it, because I think everybody who’s heard me talk about natural polymers and, you know, every time I say something about you, I’m like, you gotta hear this guy’s story. If if there’s a manufacturer out there who understands every aspect of the business from, you know, the chemical side to installing it, being out there and pulling the trigger as a spray foam contractor to to now a manufacturer, you understand the frustrations that our customers, our listeners have out there because you’ve experienced it from every aspect of the business. So I think a good way for for you to introduce yourself to our listeners is just start at the beginning and in how you got into spray foam. And then we’ll then we’ll go in and talk about some of your innovative products.

Ben Brown:
Yeah, that sounds good. So, I mean, I basically got into the industry, you know, indirectly through a friend. My first job at a school when I graduated from college was working for a chemical company that happened to make polyester polio’s that they sold into the spray foam industry in polyurethane industry in general. So my first job was working as a technician in a lab, you know, running tons and tons of reactivity, profile and salability studies. And then from there, I got to the opportunity to become a commercial manager and work directly with spray foam contractors, primarily in the roofing sector. And developing the spray foam, doing all the fire testing, doing all the code compliance testing, and really gave me a great opportunity to experience the laboratory, the formal laboratory and the quality control process and really see what that aspect of the business was. But as I get into the business and worked on the R&D side of it, I got more interested in the commercial side of it and the application side. And so as I was out working with the contractors, running trials around the country. It brought me back to my my roots, which really was in contracting. And I grew up working for my father as he was a general contractor, carpenter, contractor. I literally grew up on custom home job sites, you know, you know, playing around and cleaning jobs and then, you know, as as early as I could remember. And then as I got older, of course, put me to work as soon as I was old enough to. So it kind of reminded me of that. And as I was working with the contractors, I kind of miss that aspect of my life. I like working in the lab. I like that the R&D side of it. I always wanted to be a chemist as it is a young kid. I used to fantasize about making my own superhero called Chemical Man.

Travis Pankake:
So, you know, mix up the Franklin color was his cape. Yeah. I don’t ever I don’t think fantasy ever got that far.

Ben Brown:
But I, you know, thinking about that stuff as it is a young boy and growing up and, you know, and then just like I said, a lot of my life was on custom home sites and doing, you know, a variety of different things. As he built the jobs from start to finish, I’d have to go and literally, like, stick jobs out with them and stake out foundations and, you know, clean jobs is everything you imagine. So from my whole life. And so the only other job I had outside of the polyurethane industry was working for my father. And so as I got working with spray foam contractors who were really more in the roofing side of it, I just got drawn to that. And so when after about three or four years working in the company, there was a commercial manager that had got approval to buy some new spray foam equipment. At the time, the machine they had there was probably 30 years old, the 1970s old. Fifteen hundred. I don’t know if anyone ever out there remembers those. They might remember the sixteen hundreds. But the fifth, I’m sure there’s a few of our contractors out there. Was the gun and everything. So they. That’s Guzman, right. Yeah. It was an old guzzler, you know, like from the you know like one like maybe the first or second generation machine that they ever made. So is it really old machine and the gun and you know, so that’s where I had to, you know, work in the lab and work on this stuff. And then they upgraded. We got to a glass craft piece of equipment that does it, another dinosaur. And so we, you know, work got that. And so, anyways, make a long story short, they were getting rid of this machine. So I decided, well, I could take that machine and, you know, maybe start a side business. And although I’m not going to get into roofing, maybe spraying small additions and houses and, you know, crawlspaces, this product would be a great spray. Foam would be a great product for that. I don’t see any when, you know, this is early 2000 and really in my area, in all my years of being in construction and, you know, a contract, never saw anyone use it. The closest thing we ever saw to polyurethane foams was the great stuff that they were using our outdoors. And when did you start insulating your dad’s homes? So I did. Yeah. So you as my first customer. He had a couple of small additions. And then once I got this machine, it took me probably about six, eight months to buy a trailer, get a you know, set it up, get a generator, a good compressor, you know, and build this thing. You know, I literally spend my nights and weekends working on this trailer to get this machine set up and got that set up. And then, yeah, I would go out and try to, you know, take my, you know, long weekends over like a Memorial Day weekend or whatever, and, you know, go in and spray a a job that should have shaken me probably a few hours. It took me probably a week to do it because the machine kept crossing over and those machines were really tricky compared to what they have now. You’d have to you have to set the chair of your pressure regulators different than, you know, on the upstroke and downstroke. And I really didn’t know what I was doing with it as far as the equipment, you know well enough to sure manage that. And then, of course, you’re 100 feet away from it, so you can’t see what’s actually going on. So I learned the hard way, though, you know, rebuild the gun to spray for five minutes and rebuild the gun for.

Travis Pankake:
Superefficient, right?

Ben Brown:
Yeah, exactly. I mean, that’s, you know, so. So, you know, I kind of got an appreciation for early on, not only the construction side of it, the contracting side of it, but you know how difficult it is to actually go out there and, you know, get jobs done and, you know, figure out how to build jobs. And then at some point, we had to go and actually get jobs done, legitimately, get them approved by the code officials. And they did not want anything to do with spray foam. They looked at it like it was a specialist. And so I had to go and sell up, sell this to architects. Then I had to do this, you know, I my free time because I was still working full time in the laboratory. So this was just literally on my, you know, weekends or days off or know vacation to try to get this going. And, you know, I just thought I really believed in and I really saw a future. I really thought this was going to be something that, you know, as the economy and different things adjusted in the world, oil prices might go up, energy costs are going to go up. People are going to be looking for more energy efficient ways to, you know, insulate their homes. I thought this was a great technology for that.

Don Clymer:
You’re looking years down the road and planning.

Ben Brown:
Yeah. And so that. Exactly. And so. So I really thought, you know, 10 years from now, this is gonna be a great market. There’s going to be a great market for that. I could get in on the ground floor of it.

Don Clymer:
Well, and weren’t you kind of scooping up the the foam that you were spraying at the time, thinking with your background saying, hey, I could make this a little bit better?

Travis Pankake:
When I was just going to ask, just out of curiosity, what foam were you sprain? Was it a competitor of yours today?

Ben Brown:
No. So we were you know, we made the lab that I worked at. They allowed me to make, you know, foam a few sets here and there, you know, initially. So we were I was making my own bones. They were looking for formulations that I was modifying and, you know, and getting them to reactivity profile and the chemistry just dropping down the density and all that kind of stuff in it for more. Yeah. Exactly. A little of it actually was a lot more difficult than than it sounds. And the products, you know, in the early days were all they were good foams structurally. You know, they didn’t have the reactivity profile and the raw material base that we’re using right now. And that polyurethane industry in those days, their own was using primary means. They were using lead catalysts and then they weren’t using the, you know, environmental safe products that we have now.

Travis Pankake:
So technically speaking, how long have you been making foam then? If you include those years.

Ben Brown:
Twenty two years. Trying to answer your other question. So that did lead me to the point where I wanted to make better products. I said, wow. I mean, you know, the company I’m working for, we’re using like Catalyst, although they’re using out roofs and these are industry standard products. In those days, they were still using, you know, ozone depleting, you know, blowing agents and stuff so that the industry’s changed, you know, in the 22 years that I’ve been involved in it significantly. And I’d like to think that I’ve been a good part of that change in, you know, and developed a lot of the newer technologies. And that definitely been an early adopter of of a lot of these cutting edge technologies, which we can talk a little bit more about later on.

Don Clymer:
Yeah, absolutely. I think now’s a good chance to do that. I think everybody kind of got to feel for your background and the struggles you went through and how you can relate. And I know that’s that’s a big part of why the idei sales reps like dealing with you. They can call you directly. And we we have customers who call you directly and bounce ideas off you. It’s not a you know, you said you worked for this big chemical corporation. You just do not strike me as a big corporate guy. You know, you like to be innovative. You like to to do your own things and and stretch the boundaries a little bit. So, I mean, it’s it’s a natural progression, I guess, to see you become natural polymers. Right. So we can talk about the innovation products or innovative products you have. I know we’ve been we’ve been working very closely with you on some of them, specifically the new natural Thurm zero plus. Do you want to you want to talk a little bit about that?

Ben Brown:
Yeah, I mean, that’s a really exciting technology as we switched into these fourth generation Blowen agents. And I kind of talk to you a minute ago about when I was starting, we were using ozone depleting, you know. Whistle blowing agents and then the industry progressively phased that out, so now you know, I’m on the I was on the tail end of the ozone depleting and got into the non ozone depleting raw materials. And now we’re on our fourth, fourth generation blowing agent chain, which is the HFA technology. And so I started working on that technology back in 2012 when there was really only two players at the time who were looking at future technologies, Honeywell with their sources and Dupont with their Opta on product. And then Dupont later spun off their company. And it’s called Camorra’s now. And so that’s how we got working with the next generation blowing agent technology for the H.F. hose. And we really looked at that for a number of years. Like I says, I think some people only started their R&D development in the last two years and we’ve been working on it for quite a long time.

Don Clymer:
Then there’s companies out there right now that don’t even have an HMO available to the market. I mean, it. It’s crazy. It blows my mind.

Ben Brown:
Yeah, it it it makes sense to me. I mean, does it make sense from a commercial standpoint? But it makes sense in the sense that they’re not technologists. They’re you know, a lot of people will get in this industry. They just want to do sales and they’re more focused on the sales side of it. And I think that’s where, you know, I’m really strong on the technical side. It on the sales side. That’s where we’re great partners because we can team up. And your guys, his expertise, his sales and my expertise, his technology. And, you know, you you guys want cutting edge technology and that’s what we want to bring to the market. So so anyways, this zero plus technology is our second generation HFA. So we’re already on the next generation. We kind of came out with our first product and it’s a two pound our regular two pound AFO is a really robust product, but the market has a strong desire and need for these, you know, super high yield products, ultra low odor products. You know, just there’s just different types of niches within the market that what people want. And there’s different ways to make these technologies perform differently. So as we’ve got experience selling our regular HFA technology, we want to develop something that was kind of more like our natural Thurm zero, which is a high yield product and very, very great innovative product. But one of the limitations with that product was, is that it doesn’t meet a class to vapor barrier. You know, one inch. So we find that people are using that product. They want to use that product more like a traditional clothes cell product, but they want the yield and performance benefits that they get with the zero. So we came out with the zero plus adopting the HMO into that technology to allow it to be a true closed cell product and be able to be a class to vapor barrier at a one inch pass. And but to have a lot of not get rid of the characteristics that we were getting with the zero. So the zero plus it’s the zero on steroids, right? Yeah. So it’s an integration.

Don Clymer:
So we’re seeing, you know, you’re comfortable where I guess our techs are seeing excess of 5000 board feet out there. And I know that’s subjective. Right? There’s a lot of factors that go into it, but we’re seeing in excess of that. And what was the our value we’re getting on that?

Ben Brown:
I mean, that products coming in in the in the seven CAGR value out of it, you know, so it’s a very competitive to the to the market for HFA technology, for the yield. You know, we think we’re going to see on average 15 to 20 percent better than what most of the other H.F. those that are out here and pretended to that our value that holds through.

Travis Pankake:
Right. It doesn’t lose its our value. Some of the foam’s out there that are, you know, the high our value Sevan’s or, you know, after three inches there, they’re actually dipping a little bit. Is that does that going to happen with with the zero plus.

Ben Brown:
Well, that’s interesting that you say that we did a study on a lot of the different technologies that are out there. And what we find is that when people have these are values that they’re advertising, they’re at a certain lift thickness. What we find is when they try to spray above a certain thickness, they tend not to have quite as good in our value. What happens is the cells tend to start to get open. So as you get above four inch lifts, you have a tendency to start opening the cells and these type of products we recommend. You could spray him thicker. But you do see some reduced our value as you go Zacher passes. So we recommend spraying it for inch lip passes, but it’s certainly safe from a fire standpoint to spray a thicker it’s not going to, you know, auto ignite if you sprayed it at six inches. I think there is a there’s always a ceiling with these products. Right. But for optimal physical properties and to get the best results, you want to kind of have some some minimal guidelines there. I think the main thing I have learned over the years was spray foam development. And technology is a given take. So if you have one area that you can really excel in, like let’s say you have a really high are about, you’re sacrificing possibly some other area in. The key with these technologies is to balance all those parameters. You have to meet the fire. You know our value. Dimensional stability. There’s a number of things. And so you need to in order to have a high performance product. You have to be able to have high performance in all the areas. And so that’s what we try to do with our all of our technology. And then this product in particular, we really hit, you know, something better than what we see out in the market. And, you know, we’re going to get a lot of traction, I think, with this product.

Don Clymer:
Well, that’s a the one of the great things about working with with you is is just this morning called you up and I thought I had that shirt off. Sorry, I called you up and I said, Ben, I need a high heat tank foam H.F. So do you have that? Yep, I have it. I there’s some commercial out there. What is it. Yeah, we got that. But every time you’d ever say no. And it was another case this morning. Again, second call was we have a customer. One of our sales reps dug up and he does decorative rocks and we needed a certain density and coloring whatever. And your answer was yes. I can do that. I have I have some sitting here. That’s the that’s what we love about working with you. And our contractors love it. Just because you are you are innovative and you have the ability to to make the products that not only you see a need for, but our customers have a need for. And, you know, you’ve been you we’ve had great success with you going out. You actually the the owner of Natural Polymers goes out and does test sprays with our customers to make sure that the product is being installed right. And performs right. And and does what he says it’s going to do. And you don’t get that a lot of times with some of these big corporations. And like I said earlier, our contractors can call you and bounce ideas off. And I think that’s where some of this innovation comes from. Right. I mean, it’s not all just, you know, we have issues with termite’s and darkling beetles. And do you want to talk a little bit about the foam use we’re working on to combat that?

Ben Brown:
Yeah. Yeah. Before I mentioned that, I think one of the things that I like to do is you can just do things in the lab and stay in the lab. And I think what to your point, a lot of the big companies, they have chemists and chemists are typically white lab coat guys. They don’t want us or men or women that don’t want to they don’t necessarily leave the lab that much. They don’t get out in the field and get involved in the actual and use of it. And that’s that’s critical for these type of technologies. You really have to understand the application. And seeing it is one thing and, you know, having living lived that life. I mean, I did for a number of years, for over five years make a living as a contractor. So I sprayed foam like fiberglass sprayed cellulose. I did all those things. So I think that gives me a really unique perspective on the.

Don Clymer:
Well, it adds credibility to you. Right. You can get out there and walk the walk and talk the talk with these guys.

Ben Brown:
Yeah, absolutely. So that’s that’s what we try to do, is that I don’t want to ever get so far away from my business that I’m not able to do that because that keeps me engaged with the end users, which ultimately is the people that we need to, you know, make sure that they’re getting the best products and technology and the best support.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about the the past phone. I don’t know if if you’ve come up with a name yet because we’re still in.

Ben Brown:
Yeah, we call it work. We think we’re gonna call Pescado. And so it’s a thing you might remember this conversation that you said this before, that, you know, we talked about this a year or two ago and I was like, yeah, I’ve got this technology that I developed, you know, and I’m never formally tested it, but I’ve got this technology that I wanted to test, but I never thought there was a market for it.

Ben Brown:
So I think, you know, the person was asking for this or there was potentially an arcade. So we went and did some third party testing, which is difficult to do for termites and stuff, because there’s these aren’t just ASTM tests that you standard tests. You have to go find a lab and, you know, go through a whole process to get this. So we’ve navigated that and we found some labs that can do this type of work. And we took these products and went out and tested them. And what we found is that, yeah, this technology really is something that is a deterrent for those types of bugs. And we’re actually expanding on that. We’re going to be testing it with mice in some different types of products, different types of pest, because we want to see if we can get an overall protection to it. And the technology is a proprietary technology. We actually filed a patent on it, which is kind of rare. And the spray foam industry isn’t to file. Is our most time formulation wise? You typically have things that are proprietary, so you don’t file a patent typically because then you would be disclosing your formulation and, you know, with slight alterations, you could, you know, basically get around somebodies patcher. In this particular case, it’s a little bit different because of the way it’s based on the mechanism of the and how it deters the pests and stuff like that. So it’s it’s not formulation based. It’s actually, you know, a technology base. So it’s kind of a unique approach to it. So at some point, if we do have a patent on it, we can talk a little bit more specific, how it works, the phone, the technology, its nano bytes.

Travis Pankake:
Right. Does it try to interject some humor here?

Travis Pankake:
That’s funny. Come on.

Don Clymer:
The pictures you’ve shown me now with the case studies against the termites, with, you know, against wood, against, you know, standard spray foam and then then the spray foam, the pest guard is pretty interesting. I mean, they they might inspect it a little bit, but then they they’re like not we’re not interested in this one. We’ll move on. So it’s interesting. What do you think the timeframe is, Ben, to get that, you know, released in the market? Are we talking maybe fall of twenty 20 or is it going to be a little bit more before we before you get everything done?

Ben Brown:
I mean, as far as the product being able to release it, you know, it’s right. It’s commercial, it’s ready to go into the market. You know what we’re what we’re trying to figure out is really what the market wants. I mean, there’s a debate on how spray foam is going to be used in the south. Right. Yeah. Well, you know, whether or not we need this or not. So it’s it’s technology that we have. But we need to figure out where the market is for that technology. I think how I would market it is, you know, get some more testing done on it with some other types of pass. I think you could market it as a pastor turn product. And it’s one of those things where, I mean, why wouldn’t you want to have that in your product or not? I mean, probably get five or six calls a year. And people as your phone resistant, that might be nice to build, say. Well, yes, that might prove, but it is resistant. And these more so than the other ones. Exactly. And that’s that’s what we find is like when you compare it, they do a rating. Somebody actually is trained to rate these things and it’s zero through 10 and zero being like a failure in 10 being, you know, no investigation. So they take these different colonies and they put wood there. And then, of course, they want to eat the wood. So the wood looks like Swiss cheese when it’s, you know, after 20 days or whatever exposure, 30 days exposure and then with the pest guard treated product. It’s a you know, we get we’re getting a nine and nine out of 10. So that’s almost perfect. And then with regular spray foam as a control, I mean, it had some investigating there, like a six or seven. And so they do it, although there’s no food value for a typical foam, they will and or into it a little bit and investigate. Whereas once you have the Pescado technology, they just they just they’d rather die than go into the into the product. With that in there.

Don Clymer:
So it’s right there. There’s one thing you mentioned that I kind of want to circle back to as a, you know, the relationship between Idei and natural polymers, because there’s probably a lot of our listeners out there who are saying natural polymers, never heard of them. But you’ve been around for, you know, what, 12 years, ten.

Ben Brown:
When did natural power over natural polymers has been in business? Since 2005. Oh, we’ve been there over fifteen years and.

Don Clymer:
Right. But see that the reason why some of the our listeners probably don’t know or have heard about natural polymers, I think I think more have in the last two years or so since we’ve kind of partnered up. But there’s still some out there that don’t. And it’s because you you have focused on the products and, you know, you just built a new plant out there, really fantastic plant that that’s fully automated or will be automated and pretty advanced. But you want to focus on that type of stuff versus the sales, and that’s where Idei comes in. But, you know, you want to touch a little bit on the new plant. You you because it’s a it’s a pretty big upgrade from your first one.

Ben Brown:
Yeah. I mean, we had a original plant that we put together in over the years. It was really a starter plant. It was you know, we went from being kind of outside and there’s no storage space to being able to move inside over years and setting up a, you know, a toat mixer and then going from a top mixer to a, you know, a mixer that could make 30 drums at a time to, you know, eventually at that site a mixer that could make, you know, or 200 and some drums at a time. So it was it was an evolution as we grew the business of adding tanks and equipment. And then we just outgrew the space. It just wasn’t a way to make it efficient. Organizing in line up all the tanks. And we we didn’t own the building. We didn’t have the ability to grow the business the way we wanted to and support it. So I had all the pots and pans and the equipment. But to really have the kitchen. Yeah. Just set it up. Right. It didn’t have a good, good, good enough kitchen and, you know, you couldn’t organize it. So there was a lot of bottlenecks. And so we found that over a couple of years. I mean, I think that was one of the one of the hurdles or one of the reasons why we didn’t do more with idea sooner is because we just didn’t have the the space to, you know, really support it guys as business. So that was it for you guys were done a lot of business with. What? You know, how to do more isn’t a limitation there. So we move to a new site on 18 acres. There’s plenty of land to, you know, build a bigger building if we need to. But at the you know, the building that we have on here is over fifty five thousand square feet. We’ve got a semi automated production, as you mentioned. And, you know, there’s that setup so that we can, you know, in the future add some full automation to it. So we have a world class lab. We have lots of space. There’s you know, it’s just a way to really organize the business and keep things clean and organized. I mean, if you go in my plant in the back. We got we buy things in bulk. The truck drivers come in there. And those I was so clean, this plant that they’ve ever been in, they can’t believe it really is. I want to look like a pharmaceutical company. When you walk in here very clean and, you know, like you could, it’s food grade quality, you know, very clean, organized, but, you know, at the same time make a polyurethanes. But there’s no reason to have, you know, a messy, unorganized, you know, site. And so it’s want to be real efficient. We want the people to, you know, take pride in what they’re doing and make sure all the products are, you know, done correctly. And I think the better working environment, you know, I think you get people who take more pride in what they’re doing and do a better job. And, you know, everyone feels better about what you’re doing. And, you know, you can then you could really organize and lay out a lot of experiments and you could do a lot more. So, I mean, we’re set up to continue to grow our business and support our customers and keep developing new technology and new products.

Don Clymer:
What kind of what’s your capacity level right now or how much how much can you put out?

Ben Brown:
I mean, we could, you know, theoretically with this site and the amount of tanks and the way we’re set up, we could probably supply half of the North American volume for springform. I mean, with the with the site and the capacity that we have here. So the potential for us to, you know, supply the market with these different technologies. You know, it’s is basically unlimited, really.

Don Clymer:
So with you setting it up to be like a pharmaceutical company, are we going to see natural polymers, CBD, oil?

Ben Brown:
Yeah. And we’ve got the we’ve got the land here. We can grow. That’s illegal. I know. And I soon to come.

Travis Pankake:
Soon to come. Thank you. You got anything?

Travis Pankake:
Yeah. I was just going to add, you know, with so many different products out there and everybody having claims to things, would, you know, what’s the draw to natural polymers other than, you know, obviously the technology, the fact that you’re, you know, working in the business and on the business. What are some other factors that brings natural polymers, you know, above the rest?

Ben Brown:
I think what we’re trying to do is focus on a very specific strategy of good, better, best. And so there’s a lot of companies out there that have, you know, spray foams and there are maybe some of them are good and some of them are OK. You know, we have products that can meet and compete at all different levels. But I wrote Focus’s is cutting edge innovation and coming out with new technologies and new things that are, you know, going to continue to grow the market and make the products better and safer. And so we have a number of products in the pipeline already that are probably two or three years ahead of maybe some of our competition. And we’re just going to keep working on these technologies and working with you guys to to bring those technologies out. Keep talking to the contractors and looking at the market and seeing what what do people need? I think we have a lot more technology and a lot more stuff to offer. But, you know, we’re just kind of waiting to put everything together and get the marketing strategies and all these things behind there so that we don’t, you know, come out with the wrong message. We want to make sure that everything is supported and organized. Do you have you ever seen.

Don Clymer:
So since we’re on quarantine and watching a lot of movies, have you ever seen the movie with Jim Carrey called The Yes Man, where he can’t physically say no to anything?

Don Clymer:
You’re like the yes man to the spray foam industry.

Travis Pankake:
I can do that. I can do that. Yeah. I mean. I know you mean.

Ben Brown:
I think that stems from the background that I have. And it wasn’t in spray foam. I was in, you know, rigid polyurethane. So a lot of the stuff that you guys, you know, have needs for, it’s stuff that I’ve either been involved with in the past or you don’t know enough about the technology that it’s you know, it’s very simple for me to to put together some of these things. So some some things and power things are pretty basic. And once you understand that technology, it’s not that difficult to have. You know, we we have all we’re full, fully capable lab. So we can pretty much do all the testing and stuff, everything but full scale fire testing we can do in-house. So for some of these products that don’t require, why are some of those types of things? They’re not difficult for us to develop them. And, you know, just over the years, we’ve just developed so many different products. You know, there’s no way to really put out a catalogue of all that stuff, you know? But we you know, so we just worked together to try to get what you need.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah, I know. One thing that’s great about the partnership, Ben, is, you know, we have a lot of eager customers that, you know, some of us get close with. And we have I don’t wanna come guinea pigs, but we have plenty of testers out there that, you know, feel like they’re included in the development of some of these things. So, you know, it just that open partnership with with you an idea, an idea as customers, I think is is helping move along some of that debt products, you know, that keeps us ahead of the curve, so to speak.

Ben Brown:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, our our goal is to try to, you know, work with you guys to really help your customers, give them the best products and listen to the customers. And, you know, we’re not happy until they’re happy, so to speak.

Don Clymer:
Oh, it’s no lie. I mean, I think we use the word partner more in this episode than we have in any other one. But you truly are a great partner to us, to the industry, to our contractors. I love seeing the innovation that comes out of you and the true passion that you have for your company and in the industry overall to make it a healthier and safer and, you know, environment for for the contractors, for the homeowners, for everybody involved in it. So it’s just. It’s nice to see you because you don’t get that from everybody out there. But there’s there you have a ton of information on your Web site. Like I said, it’s Natural Polymers, LLC dot com. You can find links to all his products on on our Web site, Idei Das Dash insulation, dot com. And it’s been I think it’s been really informative. Ben, I appreciate you. This was kind of an impromptu podcast that we scheduled. I think it came came together in about 30 minutes just because, you know, we’re all kind of locked up, not being able to get out on the road. And I appreciate you taking the time and sit down with us. And hopefully I kind of get a little little better insight to you and your history and into natural polymers.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah. Just to circle back quick, too, on just your history. You know, you’re coming up through the industry being in kind of all facets of it, from installing it to making it for, you know, as you said, technically 22 years now. It gives a lot of credibility to what you’re doing today with us. So appreciate your time, Ben.

Ben Brown:
Yeah. Thank you, guys, I really appreciate the opportunity and hopefully there’ll be more opportunities to talk some more about these newer technologies as we get closer to rolling out some other things.

I think you’ll be a reoccurring guest then, since you are a sponsor right here to pay for this somehow, right? Yeah. Well, thank you all for listening. You’ve been listening to our values. Stay tuned for the next episode coming soon. And if you’ll like it, subscribe. Tell a friend. And if you don’t like it, tell a competitor. Have him listen to it. But thanks again, guys. We appreciate it.

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EPISODE 12

Get To The Next Level with Spray Foam Advisor

June 2020  | 42:00

As always, you are in for another episode packed with valuable information. Today, Travis, Don and Aaron welcome Robert Naini, of Spray Foam Advisor. His company provides information for SPF business owners, salespeople, applicators, and distributors, with the goal to improve efficiency and generate more profit through their training and learning techniques.

Listen to this wide-ranging conversation about the shortage of skilled labor. The shortage can effect cost, efficiency and in the long-term, be a huge drag on the entire industry. The challenge is how to avoid this shortage and Robert discusses how recruiting, education, a focus on retention and investing in people can do just that. A key is to break out of the old mindset that the only “good jobs” are ones that require a college degree, and show younger people the value of having a job in industry.

11:10 – Where has the skilled labor gone?

16:35 – Where should you recruit?

20:35 – How to retain the best people

23:05 – Breaking tradition

27:05 – The true cost of labor shortage

29:41 – reinvesting in people

31:20 – Rethinking how we train

36:18 – Recognize how your employees work and what they want

Season 1, Episode 12 Transcript

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Various:
What’s my superpower? Yeah. What’s your superpower? I’m still trying to figure out, Robert. We haven’t been able to figure that out in like fifteen years. So, you know, you’re really you’re not wearing flannel shirt.

Various:
This is the one and only the original podcasts where you can find yours and your business’s true value. You’re listening to our value brought to you by America’s insulation source, Idei Distributors. You want to hear from the best contractors, suppliers and consultants that dedicate themselves to more than just survival in the business world. Industry professionals that are dedicated to excellence in every aspect of their business. Our value has Amala here to share that same motivation and knowledge with you. Tune in and grow more successful, profitable, educated and recognized business. Listen to the Value podcast to become the industry leader in your market. Find your value with our value.

Travis Pankake:
Hello, friends, welcome to our value brought to you by Idea Distributers. This is the Insulators podcast. We’ll bring you industry experts in building science, fiberglass spray, foam, spray, foam equipment, business and marketing leaders and many others. So sit back, relax, take some notes. You’re listening to our value. I’m Travis pancake sales and training here at Idei, alongside my co-hosts today, Don climber Pao and Aaron Francene. So, Don, what are we doing here today? Who we bringing on today?

Don Clymer:
We are bringing the one and only spray foam adviser, Robert 90 on the show today.

Travis Pankake:
Awesome. Yes. So what can you tell us about the guy you’re going to? You going to. Are you going to acknowledge his presence today?

Don Clymer:
Yeah. Well, we’ll bring him in. OK. We’ll bring him in. So I we were just talking about this before we came on. I’ve known Robert for over ten years, at least back to his demo like days. But now Robert is with and he is the one and only spray foam adviser, like I said. And I’m just gonna read a little bit of his bio. Robert has a Bachelors of Science in Mechanical Engineering and an MBA from the University of Texas at Arlington. With many years of experience on the cutting edge, a spray foam insulation dating back to 2004. Holy smokes. Robert has developed a unique, yes, a unique knowledge base, including spray foam, sales and marketing employee and applicator training, building science awareness and building code expertise. Therefore, he can leverage his spray foam knowledge and business, know how to help both manufacturers and contractors grow their business. And that’s what we all want, right? Right. 100 percent.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah. We didn’t introduce friends any.

Various:
Did he say hi? Yeah. Good enough. Hi. So, Robert, with all kidding aside, we’ve known each other for a while. I ran into you at the last SBF day out in Pasadena and we were just kind of talking and we actually started talking about food and and how I miss the food from New Orleans, being in Colorado now, enjoying cultural food, good food out there is green chili, but we’re talking about the food out there and the fried grouper sandwiches in Florida where you live. And then somehow that conversation transitioned into, hey, do you want to do a podcast?

Travis Pankake:
Quite naturally. Yeah. So.

Don Clymer:
So here we are. Kind of take us through a little bit of your background and how how you went from an MBA in engineering to being the spray foam advisor, as we all know you today.

Robert Naini:
Sure. Don, first I want to say thank you for asking me to be on the podcast, so I really appreciate it. But, yeah, it’s as you said with my background, after I got my undergrad in mechanical engineering and my Masters in Business, I started at Demel. And that was actually an ax to that. I had no idea what spray foam insulation was. This is back in 2004. I barely even knew what insulation was. I actually knew more about our value and you value in thermodynamic calculations from my engineering degree than I actually knew what the physical products were in real life. And my dad had actually started working at Demo like a couple months before I graduated college. And he slit my resumé. Fred.

Don Clymer:
Yeah, Fred. Yeah, I remember Fred.

Robert Naini:
So Fred, 90, my father worked in the customer service department and he slit my Rosnay on the desk of Davel. All the CEO and owner didn’t like USA at the time. And Dave’s assistant called me and brought me in for an interview. And I started the next week and I started in the in the as an engineering intern, actually, and spent a couple of years inside at the engineering department, went out and did a couple of years in the field as a sales rep, moved back to Texas and started an architectural specification program for Dibala. OK. I remember that where I was doing a bunch of architect presentations all across the country and training the entire staff. How to do architect presentations. Perfect. And that led me to create the engineering department and become director of engineering. I brought on put an architect on staff. We had a technical director on staff. We brought a fire engineer on staff. And so I was running a team of five and we managed all technical challenges from sales reps, from contractors, gold officials, building builders themselves, architects, any type of technical issues related to the the way the products could be used in the field came through our department. And then all the product testing to get evaluation reports and to meet code and provide code compliance and all of that documentation.

Don Clymer:
So you’ve done everything from sales to engineering to architectural presentations. So you’re, well, well-rounded in the spray foam industry.

Robert Naini:
That’s right. That’s right. And so that led me to Dave actually promoted me to see oh, I don’t know any. There’s a couple named drops that might come out here where some people that left them like vacated some positions and there was a restructuring before the sale, before the eventual sale happened. Dave Freital left them like canals and left them like and I was promoted to Seelow. They left one letter during that l can Alice.

Various:
And I know that name. Who’s that? You know that a little a little known drop in action there.

Robert Naini:
I became CEO of Demelec USA and then the transaction, then the sale to Sun Capital, the private equity firm that bought Demelec occurred. And I was COO during that time date. We did the transition from Dave Lall to a new CEO, Dave. After about six months, Dave retired. I worked with the new CEO to onboard a new VIP suites and combine, you know, bring dim like USA and didn’t like Canada, who were operated as two separate companies previously helped bring them together as one company under new management structure with a whole new leadership team. And after about a year, I left and started spray on the visor. What was.

Don Clymer:
Have you had you been working on spray foam advisor in your head kind of thinking this is what the industry needs, somebody independent?

Various:
No, not at all. It was a year round, like the complete honesty here.

Robert Naini:
I got laid off. I goes to see CEOs. Oh, that’s from a you know, a previous regime. Sure. And we brought in a whole bunch of new executives. I was the last man standing from the previous regime. And I was part of, like, I think a nine or 10 person cut that happened a year after the transaction. And that was an shit moment. Yeah, it kind of completely caught me by surprise. But it was one of the best things that ever happened to me, because I if if it didn’t happen to me, then I might still be working there today and never would’ve got my feet off the ground with something of my own. And so, you know, it took me about two to three weeks to realize, you know, my superpower is really understanding a lot of technical information and figuring out a way to condense it down and share it with other people. What’s Mozer power?

Various:
Yeah. What’s your superpower? Right. I’m still trying to figure out, Robert.

Travis Pankake:
We haven’t been able to figure that out in like fifteen years. So if you know, please tell us you’re really you’re wearing flannel shirt.

Robert Naini:
You have him around. So he does something special. He just has to figure out what it is.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah. Do we make the Patagonia plug now that liking Patagonia. Billboard. So we digress.

Don Clymer:
So here you are. Your superpower is the spray foam advisor to the industry.

Robert Naini:
Well, it’s really just a matter of, you know, spray foam advisors, a brand. Right. Just like Idei is a brand that the idea behind spray foam advisor when I started it was that I felt I had value that I could offer to more than just one employer. You know, there were plenty of employers in the marketplace that were I could have gone on interviews and tried to get another job, but I thought I had strong enough value that I could offer to more than just one employer. And so I started shopping around my services as a consultant, knowing that my ultimate goal would be to build training and education platform for the industry.

Aaron Franzen:
When did you become the spray foam adviser? Did you guys really say that?

Robert Naini:
And so I think 2015 is when I bought the u r l started marketing spray foam advisor start. I started writing my blogs in 2015 and started picking up a couple of contracts in 2013.

Aaron Franzen:
Are you a one man band or do you have a team or.

Various:
I’m a one man band all you baby wanted at all.

Various:
Hey, nice. Nice. Well, go ahead.

Robert Naini:
I will say that I have learned the value of hiring out the things that I’m not great at. And you know, most the time I just Ru’s rely on virtual assistance or, you know, some type of, you know, part time help because I am not to scale where I really need a full time person. And when I do need help, it’s typically in an array of different things. So I look for those skills when I can find them.

Travis Pankake:
All right. Well, let’s get down a little bit business here. You know, one of the things that Don and I were talking about before the podcast was the topic of skilled laborers. Right. Where have they all gone? I’m citing an article that you wrote, Spray Phone.com from February about a year ago. So a lot of the information that we’re going to talk about it is that’s where I’m going to get it from. Great article. And obviously, you want to dive a little bit deeper into some of those subjects. So one of the things I’m looking at is where have all the skilled laborers gone, Robert?

Robert Naini:
Yeah, it’s a big question. And I don’t know what you’re hearing from your customers, but when I talk to contractors out there in the marketplace that the number one challenge that I’m constantly being hit with is where do I find labor? What do I do about personnel? And I’m constantly hearing that as the number one challenge. And when we talk about labor, most of the time we think about it on the applicator side. And it’s more than just the applicator side. It’s all parts of the business, including, I would say, on this spray foam sale side of things, because there’s just not enough knowledgeable people when it comes to these topics to be able to just hit the ground running in the D. Positions.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah. I mean, one of the things that my job takes me across the country dealing with insulation contractors, that’s the number one gripe. Labor labored labor there.

Don Clymer:
Consider how do we find it? Yeah. You help me find labor, I’ll buy from you. Exactly.

Aaron Franzen:
And like you say, its sales, its estimates is it’s hell, it’s office help. I mean, there’s a shortage of help in across the board, not just labor.

Robert Naini:
Right. That’s right. Well, you know, all positions ultimately come down to labor. It comes down to some personnel filling a role somewhere. And, you know, the question that I posed in that article and I did the same, you know, the presentation, the breakout session I did at SPF Way this past month and February was about the same topic. And that question I pose is kind of, you know, more amusing than real, because the reality is we never had the labor to begin with because the is growing so fast and we’re an infant really compared to other construction trades.

Don Clymer:
Hey, real quick, and what do you think the industry is growing at on an average?

Robert Naini:
What rate? Yeah, I think we’ve slowed down a little bit, but we’re probably in the 10 to 12 percent year over year growth. This kind of my that’s kind of my feel right now for the market. You know, we had we had years. You know, if you think back five, six years ago, springform was growing at like a 18 to 23 percent clip. Yeah. And it was kind of outrageous. I think that slowed down a little bit, but I don’t see it stopping it.

Don Clymer:
So especially with the increased energy codes and how it’s not going to it’s not going to stop. We’ll continue.

Travis Pankake:
What do you what do you think has created some of the slowdown labor, the size of the market in general?

Robert Naini:
You know, as the market gets bigger, it takes a bigger you know, it takes a bigger piece of the pie to make the same 20 percent clip. Right. So so at a 100 million dollar market space, it only takes a 20 million dollar growth to get a 20 percent clip. But when you’re a billion dollar marketplace, it takes two hundred million dollars. It’s like it’s it’s just the sheer size of numbers, I think. So that’s one of the key factors.

Aaron Franzen:
So you said that there’s always been a shortage of labor in this industry. Do you think it’s because the demand has outgrown the contractors that can fulfill it? Is that what you’re alluding to?

Robert Naini:
Yeah. So that’s part of it. And then also, you know, I mentioned the youth of the construction of the spray foam industry and overall construction. If you look at other segments of the construction market, they’re also having labor shortages. You look at a track, contractors, you look at electricians are huge. You know, you look at any skilled labor out there and they’re they’re finding difficulty filling those roles. So how do we fix that? Yeah, that’s that’s the big question. Right. Right. Yeah. They’re my my opinion. Like, I have a plan, but it’s something that the industry as a whole has to tackle and we can’t wait on it. And it’s better to think about, you know, why is this important? First, you know, what happens if we don’t do something about it? Well, if we don’t have labor five to 10 years in the future, then we become beholden to. The laborers that are in the industry, too, the knowledgeable laborers that are available, which means labor prices go up. That means bid prices have to go up. And that means we have to. We have to start having bigger conversations about why there’s a big discrepancy between, you know, spray foam prices and other insulation.

Don Clymer:
I was just going to say that spreads just widened.

Robert Naini:
It just gets bigger. Yeah. So I think, you know, you asked how do we attack this problem? And my opinion is it has to. It has to be done across the board at all levels of the industry. It starts with recruiting, constantly, constantly recruiting new talent from everywhere possible.

Don Clymer:
I was just going to ask, where do you think our contractors should recruit? Yeah. I mean, is we’re open. I mean, that that’s like I said, that’s our number one gripe from our contractors.

Aaron Franzen:
Yeah. Did it do installers use a recruiting agency? I mean, do they are they going out saying, boy, I really need a job that they can do?

Don Clymer:
People still take ads out in the paper. Help wanted. I mean, honestly, I met some of them do.

Robert Naini:
Yet they’re still taking ads out in the paper. Oh, really? Electronic papers. Right. So Facebook marketplace, Craig’s List, some of these electronic indeed dot coms and these electronic websites. That’s where. What’s the other one? Not Facebook, but the professional link. LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn. So these are some of the sources that I think contractors are used to using.

Travis Pankake:
Well, let me let me back you up a little bit, because I’m kind of going from your article. You know, when was the last time you heard of millennials say, I want to work in the construction trade? So we got to look at this from even earlier than that. Right. How do we get the skilled labor interest back into some of the youth, some of the you know, the high school students, the college students where, you know, shop class? Well, yeah. I mean, that doesn’t even exist in some hice things anymore. So obviously we can do all the recruiting in the ads and looking for labor. All we want. But if it’s not there where we should start earlier than that. Right. We should get to reinforce it from a different level.

Robert Naini:
So. Well, the issue is that, you know, how do we get to this place, to the situation in the first place? Right. And a big factor is shop classes, vocational schools, vocational programs and high schools. They don’t exist anymore. Right. And you go back. Funding has been cut dramatically. You go back 20 to 30 years. Our generation and we were told, what? Go to college, get a degree to go get an office job, to go get a good job. And that good job was always viewed as a white collar office job.

Don Clymer:
That reminds me of my favorite Super Bowl commercial ever. I can’t remember. Maybe Doritos or whatever. It was a little kid. And they’re interviewing and there’s a little chubby kid is like, I want to work my way into middle management. You know, I mean, because that’s just where I found it in her head. Right.

Robert Naini:
That’s right. That’s right. And so that driving force, it drove a big portion of the population into universities and into professional careers and away from vocational school. Combine that with the downturn that happened around 2007 to 2009 time frame. And there weren’t very many jobs. Right? There weren’t jobs available in the construction industry because people were being let go and kicked off to go find jobs elsewhere. So we now look 10 years in the future from that, you know, 13, 12, 13 years in the future from that downturn. And that experience doesn’t exist in the construction industry because it was all sent off to go find jobs elsewhere.And they’re not coming back.

Travis Pankake:
And that labor force is now aging and retiring and going away. Bingo. So where are we going to fill this from, Robert?

Robert Naini:
Yeah. So we have to do it organically. That’s my opinion. And we have to start now because organic growth takes a long time. If you if you’ve looked at any part of your business and even, you know, a good way to look at it is the growth of a business from an organic standpoint takes a long time. The growth of the population pool from an organic standpoint takes a long time. So what do I mean? When I say organic? I mean, we have to do it from the grassroots. We have to recruit regularly. And you say where from? My opinion is I want to hire smart, high integrity persons that are honest and truthful and and will show up when they say they’re going to show up. I want to hire for character and I will train knowledge and skills.

Don Clymer:
That’s a great point. So so you find that high integrity guy, the guy with character, the guy would drive. How do you keep him? Because this isn’t an easy industry. The addicts are one hundred and forty degrees. You know, they’re crawling through up and over stuff. They’re wearing their shoulders out. Once you get that guy, what’s the best way to retain them? Yeah.

Robert Naini:
And these guys are people just like anybody else. Stook. You have to find what they are most interested in. Right. What is that individual’s interest? Are they interested in opportunity? Do they want opportunity to grow and become better and maybe transition into another part of the business? Or do they really like being the technician and being the mastermind technician behind the equipment, which means that they’re likely going to become, you know, a crew lead, a a shop lead. Maybe they even become the trainer for the business.

Don Clymer:
So you should be able to as a business owner, you should be able to lay out one or two different career paths that, hey, if you do, good. I hired you because X, Y, Z. Right. And if you excel at these, here’s a career path for you where you can improve yourself.

Robert Naini:
That’s right. That’s right. And I look at this from maybe from a I don’t know if it’s a biased perspective, but this is how I came into the industry. Somebody found me with no knowledge and no skills. And they found me and saw the opportunity to teach me and train me these concepts and see how I could provide value for the organization over the long term.

Robert Naini:
And with that, I had to take action. I had to show up. I had to be involved. I had to grab the bull by the horns and do the things that were necessary. The reality is there were three, four or five other guys in the organization that had the same were we’re putting the same type positions as I was. We’re given the same opportunities. And they’re not even in the spray foam industry anymore, really. And so you have to realize that sometimes it’s just not a good fit. You know, like you might have to go through three, four, five guys to find one that sticks and and actually becomes what you’re trying to create.

Aaron Franzen:
I think people want to be engaged and they want culture and they want opportunities, sometimes more so than money. Money is important, obviously, but that’s millennials. That’s what they’re looking for.

Travis Pankake:
Well, and we need to get away from that message that, hey, you have to go to college. You have to get an education. You have to get an office job. How do we sell that? It’s OK to work with your hands. Use your skills in other ways. You know, some people just are naturally gifted with tools and. Working with their hands and things like that. But because of society, because of that, hey, you must go to college and get a college education to get a good job. We need to get away from that message, not discrediting college by any means. But it’s not it’s not a necessary thing to get. You have a job that you can have a good life from. Well, and a lot of cases, the kids who go to vote take school.

Don Clymer:
I mean, you see it all over Facebook. Instagram. Mike Rowe. Right. A lot of cases the kids can make more money doing this type of work than they can at an entry level office job.

Travis Pankake:
And they’re not paying off student loans right now because they’re jumping right into a job.

Robert Naini:
So that point right there, that that’s a conversation that I don’t think is being had enough right now, that the marketplace is that student loans, the cost of university now is different than it was 20 years ago when I went to school. It’s the return on investment is not necessarily there, depending on the type of program that you’re going into. If you’re going into law school, if you’re going in to be a doctor, if you’re going in to be an engineer, then those programs are necessary. But if you’re going just for the experience and you’re going to have one hundred thousand dollars in debt and graduate six years later with an interdisciplinary study in human relations like what the hell you’re going to do with that?

Aaron Franzen:
You’re going to do sales. I mean, that’s exactly what you just described, is what Erin went to school for. And he’s sitting here on the podcast or whatever.

Various:
He said that we have we have new sales reps here this week. And last night we were talking and I went to calls for this and that. And everyone is in sales. But to your point, you can still go to college and still be a spray foamer. And you said Mars, you said master technician just calling it that rather than, you know, we always say labor short. There’s a labor short. This isn’t a labor job. This is a technical field with chemistry and with fluid dynamics and building science. And I still think that there’s a place for go to college, learn, learn, get it, learn this. Disagree. Yeah. You know, understand the technical side of it. Spend time in it and then you’ll be equipped later on to either advance or start something for yourself.

Aaron Franzen:
So I don’t want to say don’t go to college. Go to college. Oh, absolutely not. Either way, there’s still yeah.

Travis Pankake:
There’s value there. But like you said, it doesn’t necessarily need to be your end game. Right. Your courage education doesn’t necessarily drive you to your end career.

Robert Naini:
Well, I think it needs to be evaluated based on what type of opportunity that’s going to create for you vs. the message go to college, because that’s what you’re supposed to do.

Don Clymer:
Exactly right. Yeah. This is what we did. This is what you’re going to do. And this is what your kids are going to do. Doesn’t have to be that way.

Robert Naini:
My best friend from high school went the exact opposite path of me. He graduated. He knew he didn’t want to go to college. He went to a vocational school. He became a reefer mechanic. So the refrigeration units on the back of trucks became a refrigeration mechanic and he works on refrigeration trucks. And he’s been doing that now since he was 19 years old.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah, you got to deal with reefer. This guy’s from call. Yeah. I remember Columbine on a specific Colorado where I am.

Travis Pankake:
So we get off topic a little bit there. Right. Right.

Don Clymer:
So, OK, let’s talk a little bit about. So we’ve we’ve identified the guy. Gave him a career path, you know. But what happens if we don’t identify that guy? And we continue down this path of labor shortage? You know, I assume costs are going to go up. Yeah.

Robert Naini:
You know, like what would happen if in 10 years all the contractors wake up and they’re less able? Labor costs is now 50 percent higher. We’re all making more money, more or more. Guess what, Don? They don’t buy more chemical from you, right? Right now they buy less because they’re selling less jobs. Because now the there the jobs that they have are fewer and far between because their price has gone up overall. Now it’s going to go up faster than inflation. So we’ve become we create a bigger disparity between current prices and future prices by not trying to aggressively address a labor shortage.

Travis Pankake:
True. So other than, you know, us doing this podcast kind of thing, how do we get this message out more?

Robert Naini:
I mean, we have to be telling everybody, right. You what can you guys do? You guys interact with thousands of spray foam contractors every year. You you and your teams have to be sharing this message, right? I try to share it as much as I can. The manufacturers in the industry have to be sharing this message and all of us have to be doing our part when it comes to training and education, because that’s what we’re dealing with, is it’s a it’s a labor shortage of skilled personnel, of knowledgeable people. So we have to be able to take people who have high will and high desire and high integrity and the drive to become better. And we have to create paths for them to gain the knowledge and actually be effective in the field. And that means that the companies that operate out the field, spray foam contractors, for example, they have to become more sophisticated. They need systems and processes that onboard these new people into their business that get them operating as fast and as efficient and as quick as possible with as little impact on the best people into the business. Like with this little impact on the business owner, with this little impact on the best sprayer, with this little impact on the best sales rep. And we have to get them into the organizations where they’re effective in short order. And then they have to have some form of continuing education for their personnel so that they can move them forward on that career path.

Don Clymer:
So I got a question. Is it? I’m not sure I want to phrase it. So once once you find that guy. Right. The guy with all the qualities we just talked about, it’s equally important to invest back into that employee with trainings continuing at. So it’s not just, hey, you know what? You know, some of these guys, some of the contractors out there might might use that as an excuse, right? Hey, there’s no there’s no labor out there. We can’t find the right guy when, in fact, they’re not investing back into their employee. That’s a huge part of it. Wouldn’t you agree?

Robert Naini:
I agree. So so what I see happening in the industry is the business owner calls and says, Robert, you know, I’ve had five guys in the past two years come through my doors and they’ve all not worked out like they just they come in and it’s grueling work and it’s hard to do. And all of these excuses and it’s probably a lot of what they’re hearing from their people. But when I turn the question back on them and say, OK, guys, what is your process for onboarding these new people? What do you mean process? Right. What is your process for taking them from not knowing anything to knowing that the knowledge that they need to to be more than just an assistant.

Don Clymer:
To being a master technician

Robert Naini:
Right. What’s that? What methods are you using them? Opportunity. And they’re not doing anything.Well, because they don’t know how to do it.

Travis Pankake:
The answer is I put him in the truck with Jimmy so he can get his 40 hours this week. Right. Right. I mean, that’s keeping him busy.

Robert Naini:
Think about what happens. Right. So we bring on we’re going to say we bring on a guy to be an assistant. So how do we train him? Well, we send him out with our best spray foam crew or our best to spray foam tech. And we expect that that tech trains him with no guidance, with no with no other information. So what happened? Tech sees him as competition. Yes. They go out to the job site. The tech sees him as competition. He might take my job some day. This guy, if he gets any good, I might lose my job. But then the tech also says, you know, I get paid by the board foot. Right. I can’t waste any time training this guy because I like if I slow down my job, then I don’t get paid as much. If I spend any time training this guy, I don’t get paid as much this week. So they drive after what they’re paid by. That’s what most techs, most sprayers in the industry. That’s what’s gonna drive their actions, is whatever they get compensated for, whatever their incentive is, they’re going to drive after that. And if they get paid by the set or by the board foot, then they’re going to drive after spring. More material.

Travis Pankake:
So instead, we should be, as the owner should take that head tech guy and say, hey, I want to expand this business and I need your help doing it. You’re going to be our trainer. You’re going to be our trainer. I’m going to bring you in. And in a month from now, when you get this guy or two months, you know, whatever the timeline is and you know what? We’re gonna have two rigs. We’re going expand business. And you’re gonna be a part of this growth.

Aaron Franzen:
Yes. You can give them a business growth objective, you know, to give them up.

Don Clymer:
You’re going to get a center board foot for whatever that rig does.

Robert Naini:
Train ride. And you can do that if that head sprayer is interested in that type of growth path for himself. Right. Because I’ve come across a lot of sprayers who were just like, leave me alone. Let me do my job. I’ll crank out as much material as possible. But I just I don’t want any outside distractions or responsibilities. I just want this. It ain’t broke. Think all he wants, then you need to go find somebody else.

Robert Naini:
What you need to probably do is look for one of those aging guys, the guys that are aging out of crawling through one hundred and forty degree attics that have been doing it for 10 years and find somebody like that who doesn’t want to crawl through attics. But that can become but has an amazing trainer. I mean, it’s then you’ve got, you know, for training. You have to look for special skills. Right? You’ve got to look for communication and teach ability and leader somebody who can actually leadership. Right. Somebody who can actually command an audience when they’re whether it’s one person or three people, they have to actually be able to take hold of the situation. And not all great sprayers with the skills have that skill set. I would rather have a guy for a training position. I would rather have a guy who’s a really good communicator and trainer that has the knowledge, you know, than have a really good sprayer that has no communication skills.

Aaron Franzen:
All right. How long do you hold on to that new candidate for? I mean, if you put some goals and objectives in place and it’s just not. That’s probably another issue is that we get a guy and he’s he’s OK. He’s hanging around, but he’s not, you know, getting it done. How long do you keep trying and fighting? I mean, is it three months to two years?

Robert Naini:
I don’t think it’s a hard and fast time rule because it’s gonna be you’re gonna have to be flexible given the situation and the dynamics of your area and the type of work you’re doing and a whole bunch of different factors. But this is an ongoing management question in every industry. Right. So if you go back to some of the management consultants for years, one of the guidelines is that a good corporation should actually let go of the bottom 10 percent of their staff every year and replace them. You can beat the idea is that you improve the overall company by getting rid of the laggards and going to find new people. And you really people in theory are going to be better than the lack.

Various:
Get rid of the C players, right? Yeah, that’s right. That’s exactly how long you invest to make him a B player. How long to invest in a B to make money before, you know. Yeah. Annually. And those go ahead. Eventually you’ve got to make decisions. Yeah. You’ve got to move on. If you can’t get a B two and A. You’ve got to cut bait.

Robert Naini:
Well, the reality is not every person in your organization is going to be an A player. And so there’s room for B players in most companies because they’re necessary. Like, they get a lot of the day to day activities and the grind done, you know, not do it at an A level, but they get it done and it needs to be done. And the reality is, if you if you put a a high level a player in front of monotonous day to day activities, they’re not gonna be very happy. In most situations.

Don Clymer:
So the key is to recognize it once you have the talent. The key is to recognize what they want. Do they want to be left alone and just go out there and spray? Do they want room for advanced advancement? Right. And then once you figure if they want the advancement opportunity, what is going to be the best path for them? So going back to you have to invest in your point employees, not just monetarily, but you have to get to know them, figure out what their goals are, what drives them, and then create a career path for them. That’s going to keep them with you as a valuable asset to the company engagement. Yeah.

Robert Naini:
And keep them interested. Right. And that’s I mean, that’s why employee evaluations are so critical to how a business operates. Because in theory, in those employee evaluations, that’s when you’re finding out, you know, what skills are they best at? What areas of the business are they most interested in? What future path of growth do we have? Or are they just a seed player that’s just going to get the bare minimum done? And, you know, if we have bare minimum jobs, then maybe they fill those roles. Yep.

Travis Pankake:
I don’t know why, but every time you say, see, player Don keeps pointing at me. I don’t. That’s not fair. That’s not fair. So, Robert, just to kind of wrap it up a little bit, the work we find out more about you.

Robert Naini:
Sure. Spray foam advisor, dot com. That’s my Web site. And, you know, anybody can go create a free account at spray foam advisor dot com. That, for example, with this topic is of interest to you. Somebody could go you can go create a account that’s free from advisor dot com. And I have the entire recording from SPF feh of this discussion in more detail on the Web site. And they’ll be able to access that. I also have you know, for those of you interested, I have probably 30 other seminars from the past four or five years of SPF eight conventions available free on the Web site as well. And a record, different speakers.

Don Clymer:
Something tells me, depending on the hits on this one, we may just have you back to talk about another subject.

Robert Naini:
Sure may. Of course. And then, you know, if you kind of the the solution, in my opinion, starts with recruiting new talent and recruiting from everywhere possible. The best ways to find high integrity people are referrals. You know, talk to people that, you know, talk to high quality people that you know, they know other high quality people go to churches and, you know, the religious organizations you’re affiliated with. They know typically high quality people, you know, look for high quality people in your community. They’re going to be able to typically point to other high quality people. And and then you have to be able to onboard and train them. And that means systems and processes for contractors that are looking for information. There is a free an eight part video series at W w w SPF webinar dot com. That then I make free available to the industry. So contractors, anybody in the industry, you know, sales reps, distributors, manufacturers, anybody can go sign up and get this eight part video series that provides just general information across a spectrum of spray from topics, whether it’s, you know, building science, building codes, safety do’s and don’ts, general best practices. It’s kind of a catchall introduction to spray foam education video series.

Don Clymer:
So if somebody is listening to this podcast and they they’re intrigued and they want to talk a little bit more one on one with you, they can. Yeah.

Robert Naini:
Yeah, definitely. Robert at spray foam advisor dot com, that’s the best way to get a hold of me. Or you can get me on my Facebook page. Spray foam advisor. Either one of those message me on my Facebook page or Robert at spray foam advisor dot com.

Don Clymer:
Perfect. Well, I think this was great. Yeah. Lot of good knowledge coming out. You know, something tells me we’ll have you back on to write on about a couple more more subjects. Again, spray foam advisor, dot com pancake. You want to take us away? Yep.

Travis Pankake:
Even listening to our value brought to you by Idei.

Various:
Robert, thank you. Thanks, buddy. Thanks. Chair.

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EPISODE 11

Have No Fear of Fire with IFTI/Paint To Protect

May 2020  | 52:20

There’s no worse tragedy that can happen to your home or business than a fire. And there is one company out there that is dedicated to putting that fear to rest.

Travis Pankake and Don Clymer invited their good friends Gary Wolf, Brad Glazier, and Nick McCartney from IFTI/Paint to Protect, manufacturer of the industry leading DC315 intumescent coating, 15-minute thermal barrier and Ignition barrier fire protection of spray foam insulation.

This group of experts gives in depth information about all of their products, the right questions to ask when looking at fireproofing, new continuous insulation systems, what other providers may be trying to hide and above all, that with Paint to Protect, the proof is in the testing. No one in the business is as stringent with their testing and applicator training. You know that when you choose IFTI, you won’t have to worry about meeting code, passing inspection or suffering loss from fire.

5:16 – Fascinated with fire

12:09 – The proof is in the testing

13:51 – All testing is not created equal

19:07 – Continuous insulation systems

22:12 – The right questions to ask about your coating

24:02 – Buyer beware

29:37 – Certified applicator training

33:22 – Preferred application methods

48:17 – Alternative to attic sprinkler system

Season 1, Episode 11 Transcript

RVAL010 Paint to Protect.mp3 transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

RVAL010 Paint to Protect.mp3 was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best audio automated transcription service in 2020. Our automated transcription algorithms works with many of the popular audio file formats.

Paint to Protect:
If you’re afraid that somebody is three hundred dollars cheaper than you because of the coding, you’re probably in the wrong industry. Understand that the code official comes and goes, oh, you use DC 315 rubber stamp.

Various:
This is the one and only the original podcast where you can find yours and your business’s true value. You’re listening to our value brought to you by America’s insulation source, Idei Distributors. You want to hear from the best contractors, suppliers and consultants that dedicate themselves to more than just survival in the business world. Industry professionals that are dedicated to excellence in every aspect of their business. Our value has Amala here to share that same motivation and knowledge with you. Tune in and grow more successful, profitable, educated and recognized business. Listen to the Value podcast to become the industry leader in your market. Find your value with our value.

Travis Pankake:
Welcome back, everybody, to another edition of Our Value. This is Travis Pancake alongside my co-host. And when I say alongside a computer screen across from me, I don’t Donnie. We are doing good. Travis, the walls haven’t closed in yet. Are you still quarantining in your pillow fort?

Don Clymer:
No, I had to take the fort down. I just I couldn’t take another night. A zombie hunting with Nerf guns. It’s well. What are we doing today? Who are we talking to? We are talking to our longtime friends and partners, to Idei and myself personally.

Don Clymer:
The boys from International Fireproofed Technology Paint to protect End or DC 315. Take your pick on what you want to call them, because I think everybody listening to them refers to them as one of those three, if not all, all at the same time. I FTI is a manufacturer of the industry leading DC 315 into Mesic Coning 15 minute thermal barrier and ignition barrier for fire protection of spray foam insulation. In addition, I FDA offers highly tested Firestar products into messa paint, fire retardant paint, thermal barriers and fire protective coatings. I have these products help stop the spread of fire, smoke and hot gases over combustible substrates such as cables, wood, gypsum and fabrics. Equally important, I have t’ai products were designed and tested for the global market and are fully listed and compliant to many international standards. Standards include NFPA, ASTM, UL, ULC, Intertek and FDM. And today, Travis, we have with us Gary Wolfe, the executive vice president of FTI, Brad Glazier, technical director, V.P. of Testing and Accreditation, and Nick Macartney, national sales director. Welcome, guys. Hey, fellas.

Paint to Protect:
Hey, guys. Yes. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks. I’m sorry. I’m Gary Wolf. I’m having a little bit of problem with my video. I think it’s on quarantine’s. So they be in California. They really locked us down. OK. So, again, it’s great to talk to all the IDF people, and I’m sure you know anything they might have questions or any of your listeners might have questions about. And tell us a little bit about our company. So, yeah, thanks.

Don Clymer:
Thanks for coming. It’s good to see you guys. Usually we’ve bumped into each other a few times since the first of the year, and we’re off to a good start with the two regional meetings we did. But then it took a hard stop.

Paint to Protect:
Yeah, it was tough because we were actually going out to Boston. Yeah. And we were, remember. Right. I mean, up to there, I think you were at the airport. You get on the plane. Do I not get on the plane with Dr. Frank? He’s come out here, so. Yeah. Piracies it’s all you. But now it’s been tough. But but still the business does good and we’re happy with it. For what’s left out there.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Travis, you had something.

Travis Pankake:
I was just going to say, did you inform them that they’re sponsoring this podcast or.

Don Clymer:
That’s today’s episode is brought to you by FTI. I’ll tell you how much the sponsorship costs after the after the show.

Paint to Protect:
You just you showed us the Agassis some check. It looks males close. According to the Bay Area average, May twenty twenty four, but a dark area.

Don Clymer:
So, Gary, is it true that you are the inventor of Atari?

Paint to Protect:
Well, I was actually the first salesman for Atari. I was way back. I actually owned the company by the name S.O.S. And we developed games with E.A. and Activision. Wow. I mean, it was not only for Akari, but also Kleagle vision and television and Magnavox Odyssey. And in fact, I brought some of the first computers in the United States, personal computers. You saw.

Don Clymer:
How the hell did that lead to fire protection?

Paint to Protect:
I didn’t say I did a good job, actually.

Paint to Protect:
I retired young and I came back in because I’m so fascinated with this product that, you know, all kidding aside, they they haunted me for almost a year to come in and run the company and build it. And they told me there was a paint and I was just basically like a housekeeper. And you paint. You. Finally, this true story, they they put little army men, no little green army men that we played with rebels and it them into the paint and they put them out in the warehouse floor and they took a blowtorch and would just try to melt those suckers, you know, and they just puff up and these big marshmallows. And lo and behold, if that didn’t pass up, that became the way I presented it.

Don Clymer:
You know that that’s gonna be my my science experiment for homeschools this afternoon. I was going to do the Mentos and Coke and a BBC pie, but I think we’ll go blow some stuff up.

Paint to Protect:
It’s funny because people are fascinated to know when when you have a fire that we like to see people Hellfires, that’s what we’re there for. But, you know, everyone comes out the neighborhood. I mean, you know, they sit me watch. We had a fire when we first started down, Alabama controlled fire, and they actually brought out a popcorn truck and a hotdog truck. There was that many people going around to watch this house. Cheese, you know, and we sat there in the room that we had paid with our product. They could not get to burn, so they had to actually bring eight wooden pallets and sock’em and kerosene and draw national. Then it burned up and back and the windows blew out. But yeah, it is. So we’ve got involved. Yes, I was in the video game industry and I came back and we launched the product both in retail and in the marketplace. And it’s been a long road since 60 years now. I haven’t got many older 16 years of doing it and really being kind of go, well, we are the leader in the world on the technology without it. And our montre, when we started, we said the proof is in the testing and that’s that’s been the way we develop the line in company.

Don Clymer:
So before we get into the products and the differences and what customers should be looking at, I’d like to go kind of round the horn and just talk to Brad and Nick how they got into it. Brad, you’re a you’re from. Move down to the states.

Paint to Protect:
Pretty interesting time and decide to move into the states, that’s for sure. So so not only are you quarantine in your house, your quarantine to the to the state or the country, aren’t you?

Paint to Protect:
I am quarantines beyond quarantine. You can’t leave the country at the moment. You know, in the waiting game, liberal games for residency status. So it’s been interesting times. Definitely interesting times. But now I should be happy to be down here. Like it. Definitely better. Rather be quarantined in 90 degree heat then minus 90 degree. Cool.

Don Clymer:
Yeah, that’s what my wife is saying. She’s she’s hating it right now because all of our friends in Louisiana are posting pictures of their quarantine out, whether pool or on the boat and or three to five inches of snow, it seems like every day. Yeah, that’s exactly it. I think I’ve got more of a tan now. What’s going to be going on that I have before yours work again? So it’s not too bad. How did you end up with with Gary Helfgot?

Paint to Protect:
I mean, this crazy guy, I picked him up on a hotel sidewalk one day in Halifax and I said, here’s his dude.

Paint to Protect:
Let’s let me let me see what he’s up to. I know I was. I can’t do spray spray foam backwards. So I started at probably fifteen, sixteen years ago as a spray foam contractor and slowly built that up into a specialty building products distribution business. So get out of the contracting side and get more in to the supply side. So a very tiny, itty bitty version of a nice idea in Canada. And through that, I was looking for solutions for fire protection or bomb. It kind of came across this company called Life. I called them up one day and I was kind of the beginning. I was still still running the other business for awhile. We got products tested in the Canadian market and then I or a conversation that a beer one night with Gary’s. Well, she’s worked for us. That was six six six six. Nappier isn’t gonna Alsup like that. So it seems longer. It does develop here. It seems a little longer.

Don Clymer:
So that’s why I’m wearing a hat.

Paint to Protect:
I’m about to go quarantine head shave for my daughter here. Two minutes.

Don Clymer:
I told my daughter, I said two more weeks. If I can’t get a haircut by then, you can have at it and do whatever you want. So true. How about you, Nick?

Paint to Protect:
I come from a background in sales, so I got into sales probably about fifteen, fifteen years ago. I originally started working with a window treatment manufacturer. That kind of tailored to that multi-family industry. I did that for about five years. I ended up getting picked up by another company that had more material to offer. Just went out there and absolutely killed it up and develop three different territories and decided that it was time to go off on my own. Started my own supply company, Taylor, and go to multi-family commercial markets. And did that for about four years and got a great opportunity to join the team here at FTI with Brad and Gary and the rest of the team and decided to take the plunge and have not looking back then. So I’ve been on board for about a year now and learning a lot. I can definitely tell you that. And everything is going great so far.

Don Clymer:
Good, good. Well, you know, Gary, you said that the proof is in the testing earlier. Let’s talk a little bit about the testing of of DC 315 and kind of what sets that apart.

Paint to Protect:
Well, great question, Don. And it really it has set us apart. And I got to be honest with you, a little bit of it was my naive eagerness. I think I was in the industry for about nine years, so I watched some spray foam. OK. I know nothing about my job is to know about how to protect people, not how to put it down. So when I came in, I said, listen, I’m going to get involved in this, but we’re going to we’re going to have to test this thing and retest and tested it. And I want to find out what the home industry does to protect themselves from liability. So that’s where the testing came in, because we found out that they did OK. That really at that time, there were a couple companies that had one test. OK. And all the phone manufacturers were clamoring to use it in spite of the fact that the coach said they couldn’t use it. So we like Paul. OK, it is interesting. Why would I get involved in a building? The company that has codes, IBC Iodide or C, you know, on I think we’re in 27 countries or something. Now, you know, everybody has different codes, but not paying attention to it. So our montre, the proof is in the testing was to highly test the product. I work with many different brands of foam. You don’t just calling up for about 90 days and finding out about things like third party validation of manufacturer, how to properly label your product, how to reduce liability, how to do. How to do. How to do. So I said, OK, from this moment forward, which we hadn’t done any testing, we will only just like we are, a billion dollar phone company and liabilities is our main concern. And it wasn’t as much our liability because time if we use it, if you’re there to protect from a fire, fire ice wins at the end of the day.

Paint to Protect:
I mean, we don’t have like a fifteen year fire barrier. We have a 15 minute claim. So in doing that, we developed our line through testing and third party auditing and eventually went out and developed the AC 456, the current acceptance code for foam and coatings. And I think we’ve ran somewhere north of 300 tests. We’ve tested every foam virtually in the world and to standards that are way beyond 15 minutes. I think we have our stuff coming out in the next week or two. We just passed in a fee to 85, the first legitimate one. OK, what do you mean by that? Well, again, Don, you know, it’s one thing to say you pass a test and even example, there’s currently running around right now that they passed the test. And you can quote, the only people that don’t agree with them is UNFPA. OK. A life safety because the. And you. Well, and most of the building science engineers in the industry. Because just because you pass a test doesn’t mean you comply the codes. OK. And that’s the kind of stuff going to action. The proof is in the testing. We’ve always made available if you want to see any of my raw testing. You want to see testing. No. To want to see videos you want. And again, it’s not good enough for her. I have to I have one validation. We go out and we get companies like Johnson Hughes and you know, you well and and and and on and on and on to revalidate our tests, to look at it from the very beginning to tell their test as well.

Don Clymer:
I have a question I want to interrupt you. You said just because you pass the test doesn’t mean you meet code.

Paint to Protect:
Well, sure. You know, there’s all kinds of examples, like one of the hardest things is keep in mind that a coating, OK? There’s other things to go. I’m more concerned by coating Zobrist with DC 315. And there is criteria in the eye know in the international building code, in international residential code and in local code books and everything else, OK.

Paint to Protect:
You have to you have to meet that code to be, you know, a compliant pest. OK. We are what’s called an alternative. OK. So we’re an alternative to a thermal barrier. In order to do that. We have to show via the NFPA to 86 tests that we are as good as gypsum. OK. And we do everything that Gyptian Gypsum does as a prescriptive. But we’re not allowed to call ourselves prescriptive. We are an alternative. So there’s there’s my example done. If you if you read it, let’s just say for the sake of this conversation has 11 criteria to being. Being consistent as an option over a prescriptive. And we all meet three. We can’t say that we meet a prescriptive code. OK. So I can pass the test. You see, I permit eight of the things that are required. And it’s so confusing for code officials, nine contractors. OK. And it legitimately is confusing because the codebook is under a constant update. Constant update. Let me give you an example of that in the twenty eighteen NFPA like safety codes.

Paint to Protect:
It clearly seems the only way that you can use a coding or an alternative to a prescriptive. Which again is like our coding. OK, and leave it as the interior finish. OK. You have to run in 26 days period. There are no other exceptions. OK.

Paint to Protect:
So where’s these other companies? Why don’t they publish in an app P2 eighty six. Because they’re not running it. OK, so they play with the codes and they come back to contractors with confusing language. They point to a couple of places in the code book and they go, oh, well, it’s signed by the president of the company. It must be legitimate. And that’s when that’s when the crap hits the fan. When a fire marshal comes in and goes, hey, this isn’t good, Travis.

Travis Pankake:
So, Gary, for the listeners, what exactly is the NFPA? Eighty five testin. We talked to what it’s like we’re third graders.

Paint to Protect:
Yeah. It’s basically for the exterior buildings. OK. So it allows you options or, you know, different options for the film industry.

Paint to Protect:
Besides using the prescriptive planning SPRADLEY one jumping on a little bit.

Paint to Protect:
Yeah. And now it sounds really big. You know, it’s become a bit of a lot more a bit of a big deal.

Paint to Protect:
We’ve all seen these big fires in Dubai, you know, going up to outsides of these buildings. We had the very devastating one and the Grenfell Tower, London a year and a half. Two years ago now. Yeah. In which fire it actually started on the combustible cladding that they had installed on this building. So as we’re getting into more architectural designs and finishes and we’re steering away from, you know, the old school buildings that were correct, could masonry and, you know, things that weren’t combustible. Now we’ve got all of these different glazing and architectural and aluminum panels and composite panels, all of these different items that go on the outside of buildings. Well, now you don’t have the fire protection and the brick or masonry would have provided. So you’ve got to have some way of controlling the fire, being able to burn off the outside of these buildings. Spray foam has been eliminated from from competing in that marketplace for four. Since really it came about and the focus was more on things like Brockwell, you know, non-combustible mineral fiber type insulation materials. So now you’re seeing more of a push to this, what we call continuous insulation systems, where they’re trying to get the insulation on the outside of the building because it’s continuous. You know, you get far more efficiency out of that insulation instead of putting it between studd cavities on the inside of the building.

Paint to Protect:
You go on the outside foams. Obviously, the best place for it is on the outside of the building. It’s drainage plain. It’s your brandenberger air barrier insulation. Everything’s done in one one step. So it’s a very easy area for it. It just needed some ability to have some fire protection to it. Then these architects could go and design these buildings with all of these different types of architectural sites. And so. So we spent a lot of time working on the application, the task itself. And it’s kind of what goes to Gary’s point where the proof is in the testing. Well, I could just go and run the NFPA to eighty five fire tests to say, hey, I passed the test. But what about what about lifespan? What about moisture content? What about free sourcing? What about all of these conditions that you’re now going to be exposed to in that application? We answer those questions. You know, we we make sure when we’re going to market with the product, we have all of those other questions to answer. We’re not saying, hey, we passed the fire test. You’re good to go. You know, the fire test is only one small piece. And really, that’s kind of where our work starts. It’s like I I’ve proved my concept. I can pass the fire test part of this. Now, am I suitable to be used in all of those applications?

Don Clymer:
So are you saying not all coatings are equal? Oh, corellas.

Paint to Protect:
I wonder if I got my cue card.

Paint to Protect:
There you go. There you go.

Paint to Protect:
There is a huge difference there, Don. Let me tell you some as as a company, we’ve had years and 20, 25 percent of our business has been remediating jobs that misrepresented their products. You know, there’s actually a company out there. The chapters, Chapter 26, the international building codes, 26 oh three that go through all this technical crap. And they ran a test called the UBC 26 about, oh, I don’t know. Twenty five years ago, they actually put a letter out to the industry. It’s still out there all over the country that the international building codes were so impressed. They named the chapter after their test, which, by the way, was not. It was what were what an appeal. But don’t mention those parts of they actually today get millions of dollars a year where they’re calling with that twenty five year old test over one letter from the president of the company.

Various:
Yes, I it yes, I have good.

Paint to Protect:
In our opinion, our engineers believe it passed one because it passed one. So you don’t have any engineers on staff, by the way. There’s a one of my little friend.

Don Clymer:
What should our listeners when they’re looking at it for a coating, what’s some of the key things other than so I mean, we talked earlier, just because you pass the test doesn’t mean you make code. What should they be asking and what should they be looking for to make sure that that it does that they’re not going to be if something bad does happen, God forbid, a fire or whatever loss of life, that they’re not going to be held liable for this substandard.

Paint to Protect:
Go ahead. Let let me just throw a little quick on that and then that’s a great question, Brad. But, you know, I just want to say it really goes back to the proof is in the testing, we give you not only one way you can to give third party sign up. You don’t get anything necessarily from months that says, you know, hey, we’re the best and the greatest and all. You know, despite what we might see in a call like this, you know, we want you know, basically we’ll go in front of fire marshals all the time, sometimes two, three, 400 at a time.

Paint to Protect:
And we’ll get up on stage and say, listen, everything I want to tell you today is a lie.

Paint to Protect:
Give me just a what? Well, it is. Unless I give you a document. Yeah. OK. Third party that meets the current codes that you go back to improve that. We actually did what we said. So just a little bit of homework done and I’ll never get burnt. Most of the time they’re loud and we don’t understand it because the coating might be five gallon cheaper. A gallon. Ten dollars cheaper. It just doesn’t have testing. It’s the only difference. If somebody dies, you’re going to jail. You’re responsible for all the life there. You know, they’re going to force you to pull the foam off the job and redo it and your nickel. But you did save ten dollars a gallon. It just doesn’t make sense.

Travis Pankake:
Gary, why? Why is third party testing not required? Why can you just do the test and say that you passed it?

Paint to Protect:
You can’t, Travis. That’s the point. OK, so one thing to be suspicious of is letters from the company that say they meet the criteria, OK, but they won’t show you. OK. So simple things that you do. I want to see a copy or test. Well, we don’t have to show you that.

Paint to Protect:
We have an evaluation report. Great. And I want a letter signed by the evaluation report like Intertek or whatever it is. I want something from them sign that says that you comply and meet the codes, not just an evaluation report, but just a test easer, you know, I mean, there’s test facilities out there.

Paint to Protect:
They’re they’re they’re in a business of fire testing stuff. So I can go to a fire lab and say, hey, I’ll run this test. You run the test, you get a data report back from. It doesn’t mean that it was actually certified, doesn’t mean that it was validated. Doesn’t mean that any of the coding was third party sample. Like when we do a test, that’s third party comes in where it is the production of our code are we produce tonight totally the same way as the pale that we send out the to this guy saying just because they had it tested doesn’t mean it pass the test either.

Travis Pankake:
Now you could say I. I tested it.

Paint to Protect:
Yeah, I tested it. Hey, I ran this test and without providing a report, you don’t know what the results of that test actually were. We see a lot of times where guys are accepting a data sheet that says, hey, I’m a one out of paint. Well, when our paint on what is it on steel? Is it on wood? Is it gypsum? What? You can’t just say it will one out paint your ear, always dealing with the assembly that you’ve tested. So you don’t have running a test is able to be. One meeting code requires all of these other steps where you’ve got the third party validation day to witness the test. They watch you put the coating on. They measure the amount of protein that’s on there. You know, you get these other ones where sample which submitted directly by the client to the lab. Well, there’s no oversight over that. You don’t know how thick the coating was put on. You don’t know what you’re telling. You don’t know any details. I’ll just say this. They sent us this. We expose it to fire. And here’s what it did all year.

Don Clymer:
Are all your reports and letters and all that stuff available at paying to protect ICOM Bank to protect our money?

Paint to Protect:
We got everything out there. Third party listing reports. We actually have what we call our matrix, which does kind of become the industry standard for like your to your question earlier. How does a contractor know or what do they ask for? We have up on our Web site The Matrix, which is essentially a spreadsheet of all of our testing. So it lists every phone that we’ve tested. You know, it’s not just manufacturer. We have to test each manufacturers individual fault, low density items, whether it’s close or open source all. We test each and every one of those assemblies. We list the thickness of the fallen that can be installed. We list the thickness of the coating that has to be applied over it. And then we list the third army evaluation reports for both our coding and the fall all on that table. So it’s a very easy spot to go in. The code official wants to verify that it meets and they can go find spraying Carlile’s single type prop.

Paint to Protect:
And I put on their hot link to their site. Right now you go to our competition.

Paint to Protect:
We link directly to sites. So if any. Anyone listening to us today, if they want us to create a custom matrix for them or their Web site for their salespeople. OK. Don’t. Again, don’t trust me. OK. We asked people a group is in the testing. Go to the source. It’s easy. It’s one click away. OK. If they can’t give you a document that they can click into the NFPA and say that they’re certified to do this or, you know, it, it it’s it’s obvious that unfortunately, because of the virus not only having to be haunting home, but we were just starting with Idei and all kidding aside, and yet all the I.B. eyes this this year.

Paint to Protect:
Ok. Frank was the first one and we were going to be answering that question was our whole purpose of being out. And again, we had thousands and thousands of fire contra fire chiefs and fire engineers and building inspectors who wanted to come in and answer that question, because that question is why the codebooks have changed so much in the last couple of years trying to make it easier for the contractor. So if I was the sum that in a simple response, there’d be pick up the phone.

Don Clymer:
Do that, Gary. You can’t make it simple.

Paint to Protect:
Pick got the phone call the manufacturer. OK. And ask the tough questions, which you can resupply on our website, you know, with a report that was done by Jensen use that clearly states. Here is why if you don’t know his ISP, IDC fifteen largest fire consulting company in the world, the most prestigious or true, the Fortune 100 companies will be represented by eye to eye in court because you’re in violation of the rules. It’s a tough thing to answer, but just stick to the obvious for me. Instinctively know when someone’s lying to you.

Don Clymer:
So we’ve talked a little bit about the codes and kind of what to look for, what sets it apart. How about the application? You guys you guys do still have the certified applicator training?

Paint to Protect:
Absolutely. It’s a national problem. Nick, you want to talk about that a little bit? Yeah, it’s it’s a great cause that we designed specifically to go over the proper installation and documentation on new projects when you’re using these things, 315. I mean, what it does is it separates you from other contractors when you’re going into a project and when you’re looking to get a pass from a code official. It just shows the documentation that you’ve Gunar undergone, the training and the proper procedures when applying the product. And the best recommendation I get phone calls all on it all the time is they provide the documentation in your bid package when you’re submitting your bids, especially for your combating with other contractors and you’re getting underbid when you’re supplying the documentation on the front side for these proposals. And you’re supplying all the documentation and the application procedures, evaluation reports, that code references it definitely separate you from any of the other contractors that are not providing the correct information or providing the information on thermal barriers and what the purposes and that complete documentation of it. And that’s why I’m really looking for.

Don Clymer:
What was that done? What is it required by you guys to take that course?

Paint to Protect:
Well, no, we strongly recommend that we can’t get into the building, go to a club. OK, but we have thousands of applicators in. Let me let me answer. You know, tie all this together and a quick look with what we call certify the applicator program or TARP number one in Canada.

Paint to Protect:
You can’t use a coating without taking our test. It is in their coats. OK. So the United States is looking at that going. How did you guys get this in the coat? Pretty easy. The proof is in the testing. OK. And then we again sat down. Yeah, it’s a federal bureau up there and said, OK, I’m going to tell you something. And then a piece paper up third party and show you that when I’m coming through. OK. Just ask other people to do that. Number two, OK. The certified out here gets the job. I don’t care if your more money OK or not.

Paint to Protect:
And we know a little bit about fire and fire testing. I mean, we’ve done over the world have spent tens of millions of dollars doing testing. OK. And fire. And if your kid’s life, there’s only worth ten dollars a gallon. I think you should probably get divorced. All right. Because guys don’t have kids. You’re obviously not putting much respect with number three. The certified applicator is the one who gets the job approved without an audit. Ask ask the competitors how many times stretching East Coast that the building inspector demands a third party inspection because he doesn’t trust your documentation. That’s why, again, 25 percent of our work is remediation jobs done by competitors hurt.

Paint to Protect:
It hurts when an idei contractor calls us or anybody, you know, even hurts from the competition causes that we got caught, you know, and then they want us to break the law. That’s how messed up it is. They want us to falsify documents to allow them to stay there. OK. And then lastly, OK. And maybe the most importantly, the reason you’re spending ten dollars trying to less a gallon on an untested product, thinking you’re saving money is all the wrong reasons. And you invest 20 minutes to our online certified application program. You will be smart and smart means bids, not price.

Travis Pankake:
Well, it kind of tag teams with everything that we push, which is training, training and more training, you know, the better.

Paint to Protect:
Not a good job. I got you guys.

Travis Pankake:
So just to kind of do kind of follow up on my next question is, you know, we’ve talked about the product. We talked about the testing. We’ve talked about the certified applicator. What what would you say is a preferred or recommended equipment package to you to apply your product?

Paint to Protect:
I’m going to handle that one.

Paint to Protect:
All right. You know, Analysts Frey, obviously, you can you know, you can use brush or roll or any standard painting methods to do it.

Paint to Protect:
But an airless spray packages is really the ultimate setup to have for applying the coating. It’s fast, efficient. You know, you’re going to have a better still evenness over it, using using a spray that, you know, the product itself is designed to be applied in one coat. To do that, you obviously have to be a little bit heavier body than, you know, some of the traditional house paints. You got to get, you know, still build on there. And we keep labor might. I don’t want to have a guy going in. I want to do two, three coats to get the fill build up. We go with one coats there in Baghdad, often one coat, and they can move on to the next project. So to do that, you’re going to be a little bit of a, you know, a little bit bigger sprayer than than maybe the general I was once would. So a great co, you know, seven ninety five would kind of be a minimum size for guys that are just using it on a periodic, you know, case by case, maybe to get some small base to project something like that. The break was seven ninety five. So an ideal size for that. Tip sizes would be five. Seventeen to five. Ninety on a tip size.

Paint to Protect:
If you’re into something that’s a little more, you know, higher volume usage. So you’re doing some large Quonset hut buildings, parking garages. You get up in that 10, 20 thousand square foot area. You’re going to want to step up into a minimum of ten ninety five size, if not even at 50. Ninety five for a mark for those ones are just designed for your body. Products like ours are able to push efficiently without burning out your motors on your equipment so you can downsize a skill for a cheaper unit. But if you get into high volume work, you’re just get through the machine because it’s going to be just struggling to keep up with you on it day by day. And there was, you know, obviously with the bigger machine, you’d go to a little bit bigger tip. We always caution you guys don’t go too big. You know, usually the the one of the main issues we actually see in the field is guys over apply our products. That’s usually because they’re worried about a cold official coming in because they have nothing. You know, that then goes back even further to a certified applicator program which had a document. He’s got it now. I was just going to ask. So up there.

Don Clymer:
How do you how do you help stop the guys from applying too much?

Paint to Protect:
Like all the documentation of forms to lead lead where you sign off to give to the inspector who comes in paying tags by the by the electric panel.

Don Clymer:
Ok. What do you mean hanging tags?

Paint to Protect:
And labels. Labels that you can use labels.

Paint to Protect:
A contractor comes out or excuse me, a code official comes in. You know, they’ve been doing this a long time. I mean, these guys are older Meudon and they come in there and they they know if someone puts foot. Well, I mean, this isn’t this isn’t rocket science. OK. If you look at your chips, those are you love kids and you see the work that they did on a project, you know, they deserve an A by the effort they’ve put out. And you know that they actually get it. Don’t wait till the last minute. Just copy, you know, a Google search so that if you put this frontside effort, you don’t have a presentation that we did BSD, a show on sort of by the computers. And it talks about this whole thing. The proof is in the testing. And then we expand. The proof is also new. OK. You’re afraid that somebody is three hundred dollars cheaper than you because of the coding. You’re probably in the wrong industry. OK. Because you don’t understand that they’re coding saving money when you apply it. OK. With with the results. And again, I’m sure that all the people listening this call today, OK, understand that the code official comes in, goes, oh, you use DC 350 rubber stamp. Where’s your certified applicator? Why don’t we have one? Well, you better get one then I’ll sign off on the job.

Paint to Protect:
So it all ties back. Is this ongoing thing about the proof is in the testing and the proof is in. The efforts at Euclidian to do a good job.

Paint to Protect:
And that documentation is key in a building inspector walks into a job site. What’s he looking at? He looks at the wall and he sees white paint. You know, let me see it.

Paint to Protect:
It’s not a it’s not factory fabricated product that has certification labels, has all this information on it. It’s white paint, you know. So he walks into a job. How is he to know what’s been done, how thick, which product you all of those questions are going to be tested. So you’re a certified applicator. You’ve got your certificate. You’ve got the documentation. You’ve got your proof of applied sickness on the coat. You’ve got to label up on the job site says this is who I am and this is the product based all call me with questions that Specter’s going to walk in there. And now he knows. He knows what’s been done. The paperwork is there. The documentation is there. So he’s able to connect his dots. We need the guy to have the support when they file a you know, a building is as the inspection. They’ve got to have the documentation to support why they’re sharing the project. And so having all those things together to run, Inspector walks in and he’s just going, wow, you know, these guys got it dialed in. They’re doing it right. You’re going to save yourself way more grief. And in particular, you’re gonna get paid faster. This is projects kind of get past the inspectors. If they run into that homeowner and say, hey, look, these guys really did a good job on your home. What do you think’s going to get paid first? Yeah, those guys, you know, the inspector says, I got it. You guys suck. You know, they didn’t do this, right. I don’t know what they’ve done here. What’s that going to do to your customer? Is he trying to put doubt in their mind right away and all of a sudden you’re going to be on the bottom and the person is going to get paid for that project because they’ve lost that confidence and, you know, comfort level with you at that point.

Paint to Protect:
So it all ties back into profitability for the contractors. Well, we’re always after, you know, how do you how do you make money? How do you be profitable? How do you get paid fast? How do you do it? Right. And do while you’re doing that, you’re going to be more expensive than the guys that are including Koby’s in the first place. So don’t don’t. Don’t be scared. You know, don’t be worried that my bid’s going to come in higher. Highlight that fact. Why is it higher? Because I care. You know, this is life safety. This is fire. I’m not going to go in and say, well, I told you that this may catch on fire. It might be a hazard. You’re aware of it. So I’m going to leave now and say, you know, you should maybe do something with that. And that happens all the time. These guys just want to go and spray your foam walkway and say that they’ve had a homeowner sign off on on that day. They’re aware that it should be protected. Right. So highlighting that, putting it up front, you know, using your certified applicator, I’m certified for this. I make sure I follow the codes. I make sure I only use to plant products. Yes, I might be a couple hundred dollars higher than the next person. But your house is going to be safe. It’s going to be done, right. It’s going to be compliant. It’s going to pass the pass inspection. You’re not too late. So it sounds like a no brainer.

Travis Pankake:
Seems like if I’m a contractor and I’m building some of these jobs and it’s not D.C. 315, I might as well hang on to that job because I’m going to get a callback anyway, so. Well, right.

Paint to Protect:
Right. The thing is, you know, you have your own house. It lets you talk about outside BP. OK. So some company comes over who says, hey, there are three thousand dollars. You feed your house. Everyone else is forty five hundred five thousand. You know, there are certain people are going to take the three thousand is going to look like that. You know, they fail to mention that to be true.

Paint to Protect:
Your plants, your box, your car windows, your dog, your kids. OK. What do you mean? For example, windows. But there were three thousand dollars. OK. So when a company you don’t want to putting foam up on job is not an expense. Ok. A couple hundred dollars and an Ivy Anglo’s is more meeting other customer. We have hundreds if that’s basker to make or break some of these jobs. You know, we’re better in the wrong profession because we actively market when we go out the door and say just so there’s no confusion. We’re the most expensive coding in the market today. Now, you notice that I didn’t pull up in a Testarossa like GONN does, OK. Know I called you back. It’s a for me, Gary. I’m not making 500 percent margin and we’re making pure private. And here’s our testing, you know. I’m going to harp on it just a little bit. One more thing is that I talk about proof is in the test, Travis. Right. And I want you to get your arms around that. You find the number contin, this one. Thirty thousand dollars proving what Brad just said by giving third party independent testing and spring over here, putting a drip cost of running time-lapse photography with Black Falcon. OK. We’re one coat. What’s called variable viscosity. I’m going to get into that for another day. We are thicker. We force you to spend a little bit more money on a better sprayer on the front side. Now. Let’s just talk about intelligence. If you can’t figure out, opined one CO at 14 males, OK, is cheaper than buying two coats at seven mills each. Then you’re in the wrong business. Oh, hey, you’re just wrong. Visiting explains why you lose jobs. So you said professional resume under Frontside to be able to bring that package in to show that person. Why do people say, well, I don’t want to spend that money on a coating in my house because you have shown me anything? You’re they’re more worried about having to spend an extra couple thousand dollars to put a coating on things to wash the decision for your customer that you’re trying to do going in and say, I don’t want to include this because I mean it with a bit. You’ve made that decision for your customer. All right. So instead of picking up the competitors, being from that person. Well, how could they be that much cheaper? Oh, I see. They didn’t tell you about life safety. I mean, and just say, look, I’m not going to spray your job if that’s the way you want to go on this. I’m not going to be responsible. What’s going to happen in your home, right in your home or whatever, you know, got to play that the right way. But you just a little bit of follow up on that.

Don Clymer:
So in theory, you know, we’ve covered D.C. 315. Before we wrap up, let’s talk a little bit about the D.C. 360. You guys mentioned in the beginning, just a quick rundown on that.

Paint to Protect:
Well, 360 is a new product for wood in gypsum. And the big thing on it, you know, we’re just finishing up. Currently, it’s an inexpensive product, much cheaper. I’ll get back to cheapest in the market that we know that’s a good thing. OK. Secondly, it’s industry leading spread rates for the class, a commercial work. You know, there’s there’s a virus going around. I don’t know if you guys know about it. Well, here you go. And in what’s happening out there is there’s this guy named Donald Trump. He’s a president who was. OK. And he’s. And he’s approved. Approving. Yeah. Two point four billion dollars in infrastructure, Bill. So you guys can put up more home than you’ve ever dreamed in your life. Going to be a car or requirements. And one of those requirements is going to be life safety over what during construction? Lot of residential, commercial, lot of wood, lot of wouldn’t love wood. OK. And again, we get jobs on that. It’s not rare for us to get an order for five hundred thousand fifteen hundred gallons per job. But they have a job starting every week. So it’s huge usage. OK. It’s extremely easy to apply that when you can’t apply the loan sprayer. Travis, you want to add some?

Travis Pankake:
Yeah, I just wanted to basically just kind of step back. So you’re saying the D.C. 360 is basically framing stage in a in a house?

Paint to Protect:
Yeah. Framing stage in them. And then it’s just it all the way up. One of the things is happening as fire codes change, show up to us. I was talking about, like, you know, the NFPA one or one like safety codes, which is a false stuff. So a building sells out in your mind. Iowa, you know, commercial townhouses or something. And when they built those back in the 80s, they only needed a 30 minute separation between units. Now they need an hour. Now you have a choice. Travis, you can pull all of gypsum off, move all the electrical outlets, all the light switches, and redo it with firebase and gypsum, you know, two sheets. You can get your your rating right. Or you could do theses 360 on, you know, at a cost of a very cheap. Okay. Just great it down over the top your inside color and you’re gonna meet the codes. Sorry.

Paint to Protect:
You get to market and retrofit and new construction. So retrofit especially is a big one for it where you’ve got these changed uses, you know, residential and retail, residential, commercial, you know, first floor. You have to have an early separation between them. A lot of it is is rehab ecoles or buildings or repurposing buildings re gentrification of different areas. Well, how do you get those fire readings at some of these archaic building materials that have been used? Well, now I said about a rip it all off and replace it. You can actually go in with a coating and get the fire resistance rating up on those coatings. What about on those products?

Don Clymer:
What about on new construction where they don’t finish the basement?

Paint to Protect:
Not as much in the residential basement side, but but new construction, multifamily wood frame. So that’s four story, six story and under would free multi. A lot of those buildings. There would obviously, for one, they still have to have fire rating, you know, because you’ve got multiple families in their single family usually don’t have so much fire rating. It’s just you get so screwed up. It’s you know, it’s multi unit design. Hey, if I mess up in my unit, it’s not going to get over for over time. So ax basis, you know, ADIC fires are one of the worst, most susceptible areas, really, buildings. You see that particular in California with wildfires going up attacks. So they now require spray for protection of an addict. Well, if you’re in an area where you’ve got subfreezing temperatures, you’ve now got this, you know, an added cost of having the sprinkler system put in. You have to freeze, protect. You have to do all these things. There’s a big cost to it. You can go in and put D.C. 360 up over all the wood in that attic. And you could qualify this exemption for not requiring the sprinkler. So it’s almost relative to a sprinkler, so. Exactly. You can use it as an alternative. I mean, that’s where our biggest usage when you get these thousand gallon orders going out to multi unit building developers looking at that saying, hey, I can save, you know, 50 grand not having to put in the sprinkler system. And I’m going to put in, you know, just pick a number, say 20 grand and put it going up like a no brainer. You know, I’m going to go after that. And I don’t think in the end, sprinklers or sprinklers are a good addition to fire safety. They should not be the only option or the only option for fire safety. You want to look at what can I do to stop the fire from starting? What can I do to stop it from spreading? So you never get to the point where sprinklers wouldn’t be needed. Right. That’s really where we try to fit in, is what can we do to reduce the potential of a fire, reduce the impact of that fire, allow people to get out in a timely manner. There is a fire in it, obviously reduce the damage to the building. So you’re retrofit workers. Less.

Paint to Protect:
What’s the last thing that Brad says is really important done yet? Answer that question. Or maybe it was Travis, a new construction. You know, you drive down the road and you’re look around, you see these new wood construction condominiums and strip malls and stuff. And then the construction stage there is if you go to a bidding system, you’ll see it there for what’s called class A coating again, which is basically one of the things we know with 360. And they want every piece of wood treated during building because they don’t want to burn. Now, how many times have you heard of somebody welding and you take down a whole building? What is a very inexpensive way for them to get through that? The framing section.

Don Clymer:
Sounds like we have to do another podcast’s just on 360 has just been set up. Well, I think we covered a lot today. Guys. That was good. It was very informative. I think I think the proof is in the testing.

Travis Pankake:
He said that podcast Gasolines asked me when you came to work for your. Well, you learn how you earn learn that line.

Paint to Protect:
You learn how to get the attention of homeowners. And again, we tell people in your cap room that, you know, and lead up lead with that resume testing. Yeah. Now go under with a formerly has no certifications. No far. Yeah. So why should the coding. Nobody’s ever died from an hour. Twenty six. Understand why. 30. Right. Put the wrong coding up and it’s a bad situation not only for you. Right. Guy in the phone industry. Oh that’s not what we spend so much time and.

Don Clymer:
Right. Well, guys, thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Appreciate you taking the time.

Paint to Protect:
Thank you. Thanks for having us on.

Paint to Protect:
Thank you, guy. Well, wash your hands, please.

Paint to Protect:
Feel free to say. Don’t ever hesitate to call us because we will take your call and we will assist you in getting work.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. And go to. Yeah. Rita.

Paint to Protect:
That’s right. And all the documentation, information that we talked about is all on paid to protect PACOM. So feel free to check it out.

Paint to Protect:
Certified applicator printing program, the job work records, job site labels, the testing matrix. It’s probably the most user-friendly tool. We’re just a couple clicks on the button. You can download all the spread reads, cover dreams, evaluation reports, e-mail it to quote official customer in just a few seconds.

So and you can do it all just from that testing matrix. Awesome. All right. Thanks again. Thanks for having us. Thanks, guys. Guys.

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EPISODE 10

Questions to Ask Your Insurance Provider Today with SPF Insurance Group

When a small business starts to grow, they soon realize how much comes along with that growth. The intricacies of hiring, benefits, workers comp, payroll and so much more can be overwhelming.

May 2020  | 58:02

Have you properly protected your equipment and your business with the right insurance coverage? Not having the right coverage on your spray foam rig could set your business back or even end it.

Join Travis, Don and Aaron as they discuss the myriad of options and benefits of insuring your spray foam rig and your business with Craig and Kirk Campbell of SPF Insurance Group.

SPF has been helping people get insurance in one form or another for over 103 years. Craig and Kirk’s in-depth knowledge and experience in the industry, allows them to provide the exact coverage their clients need. There are so many types of policies that many people don’t even know about, or why they should have them. Coverage for trailers vs. commercial auto, trailer contents, chemicals, over-spray, harmful odor, injury, the list goes on.

You don’t have to be in the dark about insurance and you can protect your business from the worst case scenario.

8:02 – The transition to SPF insurance

9:51 – Proving the safety of your product

12:34 – The questions you need to ask your insurance provider today

13:51 – Inland Marine Coverage – why you need it

26:01 – General liability and over-spray

28:53 – What’s that smell?

44:04 – Experience = best coverage for the price

51:45 – When lightning strikes

Season 1, Episode 10 Transcript

RVAL005 SPF.mp3 transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

RVAL005 SPF.mp3 was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best audio automated transcription service in 2020. Our automated transcription algorithms works with many of the popular audio file formats.

Lightning shone right through the top of the roads into the air. Well, the foam kept the house from burning down.

Travis Pankake:
Add that to the things that is great about spray foam. It’s lightning proof.

Various:
This is the one and only the original podcasts where you can find yours and your business’s true value. You’re listening to our value brought to you by America’s insulation source, Idei Distributors. You want to hear from the best contractors, suppliers and consultants that dedicate themselves to more than just survival in the business world. Industry professionals that are dedicated to excellence in every aspect of their business. Our value has them all here to share that same motivation and knowledge with you. Tune in and grow more successful, profitable, educated and recognized business. Listen to the hour value podcast to become the industry leader in your market. Find your value with our value.

Travis Pankake:
Hello and welcome back to our value brought to you by Idea Distributors. This is the Insulators podcast. We’ll bring you industry experts and building science, fiberglass spray, foam, spray foam equipment industry, business and marketing leaders as well as many others. So sit back, relax, take some notes. You’re listening to our value.

Travis Pankake:
I’m Travis pancake sales and training here at Idei alongside my co-host, Don Climber, national spray foam manager, and Aaron Francene, spray foam tech manager, as well as equipment manager. And all things considered, fellas, are we doing well?

Don Clymer:
Yeah, we’re hanging in there with this crazy time where we’re going through right now and every single one of us is remote. That’s a first for this podcast. Not one of us is sitting. Well, the Campbells are. And we’ll get to those guys. But as far as the Idei host goes, this is a first for us all being remote, being quarantined.

Travis Pankake:
It’s a little different sitting in this podcast booth all by myself, usually thrilled by this. Yeah. Yeah, I bet. Lonely. So lonely in many ways.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. Crazy times. Quarantine people stocking up.

Don Clymer:
But we’ll get through it just like we always have. It’s a you know, not to get to. Sentimental or crazy or whatever, but it’s a great nation, we’ve come through a lot worse and will. We’ll get through this. It’s just time to sit home, clean the house, maybe drink a few beers and have mom get a glass of wine and everybody relax. We’re maintaining. Yeah. So, hey, listeners, today we have Craig and Kurt Campbell on the show.

Don Clymer:
Some of you may know them. They’re with the SBF insurance group, which started out one hundred and three years ago as Campbell Insurance Agency from their grandfather. This is the third hundred plus year customer or guest we’ve had on the show is Bullard Dero 100 years, Kimura’s, they were over 100 years. But these guys started talking insurance at the dinner table. Their grandfather, like I said, John Roy Campbell, started the business in 1916. Their father, John Ogden Campbell, took over. And now Craig and Kirk are running the business and maybe with seven children between the two of them. The legacy will continue on. Well, we’ll find out. These guys are members of our industry association ACA, as well as independent insurance agents of America and Professional Insert Insurance Agents Association when they are coaching Little League and giving back to the community in which they live, they are living their company’s core value of serving the customer first. SBF insurance group has been insuring SPF contractors since 1993 from requesting a code on general liability, commercial auto or worker’s compensation to a customer package that fits all your needs. SPF Insurance Group is your one stop shop for all things insurance related. Now, this might sound like a commercial, but I think it’s one of the things that that our contractors overlook a little bit and they don’t make sure they’re completely covered. And I can I can speak full heartedly to that.

Don Clymer:
Not to the contracting side of it. But so we just we moved into a new house in October and you change all the insurance and everything. And I forgot to insure my wife’s wedding ring. And she came to me and said, my diamonds gone and we tore this house upside down. Now, keep in mind, we just moved in. Brand new house, new construction. We to upside down. We’d been in it, I think, eleven days from the time she lost her diamond. And here’s the crazy thing is, you know, I kick myself. I forgot to call my insurance agency. You get the new policy on all that ancillary stuff, the stuff you forget. Right. And we went to we went as far as sweeping the garage, putting it through a calendar or a sifter, not finding anything. She took everything out of the fridge because she went got groceries. She she’s putting stuff in there that maybe it’s in there. Right. I pulled the fridge out after she did that. And nothing behind it. Nothing underneath it swept the garage again. It’s gone. My insurance I called my insurance guy and he’s like, hey, sorry, but you kind of screwed.

Don Clymer:
Not sure what to tell ya. Here’s fifteen hundred bucks. Literally three days later, we drove in the garage, brought in more boxes and all that stuff. She comes and grabs me and she says, come here and look at this. And I walk outside and literally two feet in front of the front of the refrigerator that she had cleaned out. I had swept in front of twice, sifted everything. Her diamond was smack dab in the middle of the floor, just sparkling right there. It’s the craziest thing, but it just it kinda is. It’s a good Segway, too, to, like, realize you don’t want always you’re not always covered with what you think you are. So that’s why we have these guys on the show today. I’ve known him for a while. Ben referring customers to him for a while, seeing them at shows. And we want to talk talk to these guys a little bit about, you know, making sure everybody is insured going forward. And sorry, we’ll just edit this part out.

Don Clymer:
But as you can see in the court, Jean and pops the kids, you can only give so much instruction. Hey, listen, listen.

SPF Insurance:
Savannah Guthrie this morning, speaking of makeshifts. She was set up in her basement on The Today Show because she does. SNIVELS and her husband set up a little studio this morning at 3:00 a.m. and they duct taped the door and she said it on last TV.

SPF Insurance:
So we have duct tape the kids out of the basement with the duct tape to keep them out so they can do it. You can do it. Don, you got any duct tape?

Don Clymer:
Hey, I’ll find some that zip ties. I mean, we’re even pains for kids that cry works a little better.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. I’m not sure what part of stay out of the frickin basement for the next hour is hard to understand. But, hey, we’ll just roll with it, right? I mean, that’s what makes it good. Don’t hit the red button. This is live TV, baby. Yeah. Elliot, lighten the mood. Well, we might as well just jump right into it with you guys. So, you know, introducing Craig and Kurt Campbell, SBF insurance group.

Don Clymer:
The guys who. Todd. Jake from State Farm. Everything he knows. Guys, welcome to the show. You bet. We appreciate it on. No problem. No problem. So. So you guys started out. It’s a hundred and three year old company. Your grandfather started it. How? How did you guys transition into the SBF insurance group? I mean, how did you guys see a niche? There was. Were you guys getting calls from contractors in that area? Give us a little little background on how it started.

SPF Insurance:
Well, it started with a gentleman that you and I both know by name of day. Final note. And Dave actually had a company here. He was on his way to Euston, Texas, to start his SBF company. And like most people, he drove through the beautiful Ozark Mountains, which is where we live, and fell in love and found out that he could buy Euge Farm for almost pennies on the dollar. And so he did the ad and then he started his first company, which was called Ozark Home in Sale Lighter’s. And he actually obviously came down to the office. And this is the fastest kirchen I’ve ever seen of anything. And he was explaining to us what he had on there. Forget it, sitting there and talking about the trailer and talking about the equipment and this sort of thing. And then he said, positive. Well, Dave, what else do you have in that trailer? He said, well, I’ve got guns and I’m thinking guns, OK? I’m really focusing in trying to listen to him and focus. But the whole time mind mine, I’m thinking this guy’s going around to people’s houses and he’s got guns with them. I’m not sure exactly what he’s doing. So that was literally the learning curve that I know we as agents have learned.

SPF Insurance:
And we feel very experienced because of that, because, believe it or not, they are agents that if you call them up and said, hey, I’m a I’m an SBF contractor and. Well, how do you do that? Well, I do it with a gun. You know, I’ll say you guys are going to be the same as us. And I’ll know what’s going on. But we were very lucky to to have Dave come here. And so we started obviously research the market research and the insurance carriers. And the biggest thing for us was that Erkan I literally made personal visits to our insurance companies and actually took a big piece of the phone with us and showed it to them. And, you know, you hand it to them, you know, they think they’re holding a diamond on back to back. You’re sure? And I thought, what is this? And also at the very end of the presentation, one of the things that we do this to make sure that these underwriters know that this is a pretty good, safe product, we actually take a piece of the foam and we put it in our mouth and we swallow and serious way seriously.

SPF Insurance:
Sure. It’s not a great big piece of this, but just enough to.

SPF Insurance:
So the underwriters look at us and go, oh, those guys are going to eat it. I guess it’s OK. So, yeah.

SPF Insurance:
Mean, I let Craig do that first. I call it the second. Yeah. Wait 30 second out.

SPF Insurance:
So that that was kind of the, you know, the end of our dog and pony show. But since then, since the early 90s, we’ve grown up with the industry. We started off, as you and I both know, with just a couple of manufacturers of the foam itself. And now what do we have? Well over 30. Yeah, yeah. So we’ve learned a lot. You know, we know what’s in the ice side. We know what’s in the bay side. But the best thing is that we know how to insure the risk because we know the risk. So we know exactly what you’re doing. We know that the equipment in the back of your trailer and off they replace it. Home Depot tomorrow. So we put special provisions in our policies to make sure that we have you covered properly so that if you do have a claim, you’re not kind of doing what happened to you, Don.

SPF Insurance:
And thank God that I called me and that I call you. Right. So we ask a lot of questions to our insurance, to the SBF contractors that no other agent even knows to ask. And you guys cover nationwide. We do nationwide. Now, the only two states on that the program is not in is New York and Arizona. And unfortunately, you know, the litigious environment in those two states is just very difficult for insurance companies. And not that you can’t get insurance in New York or misunderstand me, that’s not what I’m saying. But what I’m saying is that companies historically won’t do a special program in certain states. So they only two that were not in our New York and Arizona.

Don Clymer:
Ok. So couple of questions just based off a. That that last a minute and a half. I’d like to make it into a two part, but I don’t know if I’m that eloquent on the microphone yet. So when we have like Aaron Aaron said earlier, we’ve sold 30 rigs so far through the year. If if our guys are in New York and Arizona and they can’t get insurance through spray foam insurance group, what questions should they be asking their normal provider to make sure at least they have the best coverage that they possibly could?

SPF Insurance:
Well, that’s a great question. And that’s where we see a lot of gaps in gray areas with folks as far as the trailers are concerned. So you kind of have to two entities there. You’ve got the trailer itself.

SPF Insurance:
Now, the the liability for any trailer follows the power unit that’s pulling in the truck. OK. So the liability is there is on that side of things. But on the physical damage of the trailer. Number one, you want to make sure that it’s on a commercial or a business auto policy. Number one, because a personal auto policy excludes business use. So you can get. You can get in. You can get some serious issues there if you’re pulling the trailer with a personal auto. Number two, the contents on the inside of the trailer. We have call after call after call. I’d say almost every call. Well, my contents are covered from my business building insurance or my contents or extended from my homeowners or they’re automatically covered from my business auto policy. That that is not correct. And it’s not. It is not. No, no. A business auto policy does not cover the contents of that trailer. And why is that? The reason is, is because an auto policy is not set up to cover items inside the unit because they could be obviously items for any type of business. And so those things have to be covered under what’s called healin Marine coverage in into Marine. It’s just an insurance term that we use for items that are mobile in nature. So Ilmari means that they are covered no matter where they are or at a job site, whether they are in the back of the trailer, no matter whether they’re going down the road. So Emlyn Marine is a very, very valuable coverage. That is an all risk coverage. But we we do a couple of things on the inland Marine schedule.

SPF Insurance:
Most pieces over, say, five thousand dollars. We can schedule any piece that they have. But typically what we do is we schedule the larger pieces with serial numbers and values specifically put in there a blanket amount or like, for instance, the miscellaneous equipments. They have five or 10 thousand dollar miscellaneous limit on the fresh air systems.

Don Clymer:
All or Iwai stations.

SPF Insurance:
I mean, G&A picks up the parts for the guns and that kind of thing. And another real reason why we schedule things and we say schedule that, that means if we literally list it on the insurance policy like that. Right. Right. So if you’re so if you’re running a Grecco eight, 30, I then we want to make sure that the insurance carrier and this is the question for what what you brought up a while ago, thought of what the person wants to ask their agent. And that is, are you going to offer me an AMA Marine policy that schedules my equipment and by scheduling it literally listed on the policy will say not 2015. Grecco 830. I value twenty five miles. The reason that you absolutely need to do that in our industry is because if you don’t schedule it, if you put it on a blanket limit or you put it on a blank in the mount, the insurance company has the right to go out to Craig’s List to go after anything on the Internet, find that same piece of equipment that somebody is trying to dump out in the market and they use it as the value to indemnify you, really, if you don’t have a schedule that can happen to you.

SPF Insurance:
And those are the horror calls that Kirk and I get from people who are with agents that unfortunately do not know what’s in the back of that trailer. And they do assign an amount to it. So in other words, I’ll ask the SBF contractor what he got back there. Well, I got about fifty thousand. OK, well, we’ll put 50 on there. Well, then they put 50 on there. Then they have a fire and then they go out and find a, you know, a breakaway 30A that’s used or whatever and say, well, looks like I can get you a good one out there on Craigslist for ten thousand dollars. You’re kidding. That’s how that works. That’s how it works. So that’s the reason why you want to schedule it so that the company has to put you back in the same position you were in before you had the. So that’s why we schedule, you know, the equipment and like Kirk said, we always put an amount for miscellaneous in another area where all agents miss out, because I can say they don’t know what’s in the back of the trailer. Our miscellaneous form insurance also covers the chemical.

Travis Pankake:
I was gonna go there next. I’m glad you brought that up.

Don Clymer:
So chemical obviously is not equipment. So in the proper form of insurance for Antal Marine, it obviously says we cover your equipment and miscellaneous tools that go with. Well, that’s obviously not chemical. So we have learned over the years we’ve got to get some coverage for that. So we build in enough coverage in in our policy to cover at least two sets of Kim. That’s obviously very important. The other important thing is that person was, we said, a miscellaneous limit of about five to ten thousand, depending on how many rigs you have. That’s what picks up everything else that picks up everything from your parts to your guns to the scaffolding to ladder to whatever you have in the back of that trailer by doing it on a blanket limit miscellaneous. We don’t have to tell the insurance company. So old enough in there for that, just to summarize kind of what you’re saying.

Aaron Franzine:
A truck and a trailer should be on a commercial auto policy. The contents or the property I looked up. Inland Marine. It’s described property insurance for property in transit. So that would be this basically. Can we call inland Marine like the serialized items within a rig that we can schedule? And then in addition, we have a ten thousand dollar miscellaneous. That would cover up to two sets. And then all the ancillary things, Interreg, that I summarize that right for our listeners.

SPF Insurance:
Yes, you did. OK. It’s a very, very, very good analogy. Yeah, that’s exactly what it is. Now, also something that we’ve built into our policy here, again, from our experience, is one of the busiest exposures that people have. Obviously, with the chemical in the back of the truck is pollution. So you roll that trailer and you spill that chemical out on the ground. You’re on a federal highway. They’re not gonna let you clean that up. You’re gonna have to call a special hazmat company to come out, clean it up for you. So we’ve built into our policy. Twenty five thousand dollars of pollution cleanup in order to do that. And I know Don and I were the years if you’ve heard of horror stories like that, we quite frankly, haven’t had a claim. But that coverage is there and is built into every policy that we have. That’s another question I’ll promise you that no other agent even knows to ask. All right. Well, I think that’s very important. And then another important cover is that we do is we all understand that businesses and that sort of thing in order for them to survive after you have a claim that most businesses carry what’s called business income or loss of income. So if I I had a problem where the warehouse was shut down and you can’t do anything. So you had a fire or something, that nature. It’s the same steps in and pays for the loss of loss of income that you would have realized if the fire hadn’t happened.

SPF Insurance:
So we have built and our policy was called rental reimbursement. Twenty thousand dollars of coverage for you. If you roll your trailer or catches on fire or whatever happens to it, you’ve got enough money to go out to a rental company like maybe IDBI you guys gussin you should try it or hanging around or whatever to rent a try. Because we all know they can go to Home Depot the next day and get one. Plus we’ve also found and the biggest thing that it helps and we’ve had many, many clients try to stress fires. And Roland, we’ve had lots of those. But what we found is that having that coverage in there, obviously, we thought was a great thing. So you go out and rent the trailer, but it also gives the contractor time to catch his breath and to get with find companies like IDEO and design that new trial instead of having to call the next day and say, man, just give me water. You can’t throw it together and get it down here because the loss of income, as you know when your business is, is you, not me. I’ll show up to that job. And so that’s the reason why we have that built into our policy. And I’ll promise you. Border agents don’t know I don’t know the the importance of that equipment in the back of the trailer and how it all works together in unison. Therefore, they think, well, when go to Home Depot tomorrow and get what we need.

Aaron Franzine:
A quick question. So as far as loss of income, is that related or unrelated to equipment breakdown insurance or do you guys offer anything like that? You know, a lot of the calls we get is something similar down the road. A piece of equipment may fail. And, you know, they want to know how to handle that equipment failure or equipment breakdown insurance. Have you guys ever felt or heard of such a thing?

SPF Insurance:
In this particular instance, no, not not not equipment breakdown, per say. There are some there are some package policies for smaller, different type of non contracting type businesses that do have some equipment breakdown. Kind of what we were referring to was the loss of use of mainly the trailer, kind of a rental reimbursement loss of used to where we’re going to get you, allow you to get a trailer so you don’t lose that in their equipment breakdown.

SPF Insurance:
Coverage in our industry is just it’s it’s tricky. And there’s there’s. It’s a lot of people misconstrue it as a warranty type insurance, and it’s not that.

SPF Insurance:
So it’s it’s it’s a little tricky and it’s more designed, guys, for like large equipment that would say, for instance, me inside a restaurant. OK, let’s say you’ve got a giant grill or a giant cooling unit or something of that nature equipment right around it to really designed for stationary equipment, not really for mobile equipment. So the Marine policy that we offer covers what’s termed the special form of insurance. So in our industry, the term special means all damage from direct physical loss. So we don’t name the perils. We don’t say to you guys, we’re only coming here for colation, hail and fire. And that’s it. Ours is the broadest that’s out in the market and it’s all damaged from direct is a loss. So you say, well, what is that?

SPF Insurance:
Well, ciphering see, you laid the trailer at the job site. You come back the next day and the trailers turned over on the side, just laying around on the side. Well, if you didn’t have the best form of insurance, that probably wouldn’t be covered because we don’t have a a name panel policy that says we can fire hail, aviation explosion vehicle and somebody pushing your trailer over on its side. So I’m saying.

SPF Insurance:
So that’s why the term special and that’s why it’s the only forum insurance that we sell for these in-memory trailers, because crazy stuff happens as we know.

Aaron Franzine:
So we’ve got trailer kippin later.

Don Clymer:
You know, given the current circumstances, that that could be the most fun thing we do all week long. I’m.

Don Clymer:
I did see on your Web site. I think it’s stated that there’s an overspray coverage. That correct? I have, yeah. OK. Cause I’ll let you know, I guess. Stole my thunder done with it.

Travis Pankake:
You stole my thunder. That’s where I was going. That’s what this man is. Remember. Remember this. I didn’t see it. I’m sorry. It’s all right.

Don Clymer:
Go ahead. OK. Did you call me. Go ahead.

Travis Pankake:
Well, maybe no.

Don Clymer:
But that has got to be one of the most common questions we get asked is, hey, I overspray crowds, doors, windows, cars, you name it. I mean, we’ve heard it all. A cat. Yes. We’ve had a real thing, actually. We’ve had a cat. So explain a little bit of that, is that is that covered under that in England, Marine, or is that another special add on? How does that work?

SPF Insurance:
Well, that that is covered in your general liability policy, which is OK at this point we haven’t talked about. So part of your package policy would consist of general liability and general liability is a covers that protects you from the public. So it protects the F SBF contractor from any obviously overspray claims that they may have or anything of that nature. So with that in mind, that is where that is covered. And yes, we still have overspray. You know, we obviously had a lot more back in the early days between the 93 and, say, 2010. As we all know, the industry has done a tremendous job of educating SBF contractors on overspray, but it still happens. So we’re well aware of it. We also have a couple of contractors that we do business with that’s clean overspray and we have contacts and relationships with them. So when we do have those situations, you know, because Kirchen, I’ll be the one that gets the call from the person who just got overspray.

SPF Insurance:
And, of course, you know, if it’s a car, then they’re they’re telling us that, hey, you’re going to buy me a brand new car and I want to hear more. So we obviously talk him off the cliff and explained to him that it can be cleaned and that if we can’t get it clean, then we’ll do what we need to do to satisfy you. But give us a chance to clean it first. And if you’re satisfied, then everything’s good. What do you say, car? Ninety. Ninety five percent of all Scituate. Ninety five percent of them all work out just fine.

SPF Insurance:
Get calm down and know that we’re gonna take care of them. And again, these companies do a fantastic job, right?

Aaron Franzine:
We actually as a as a first level fans, we do carry a product. One of the GSP products for. Right. We say prickley for overspray. So you want to try to expand every resource, clean, clean or fixator or whatever. I’m hoping before we have to get an insurance company involved. So I just wanted to put that out there.

SPF Insurance:
You bet. Yeah. You bet. And you bet. Well, frankly, left. And if you can clean a factory done paint job versus having to repaint the car.

SPF Insurance:
If I’m a car owner, I would rather I’d much rather that than having to get my car completely repainted because in my opinion, there’s nothing like the clear, the clear cut, the factory done dump. So, yeah, most people, once they see how will these products do work, we just we rarely, if ever, have an issue.

Travis Pankake:
So we’ve covered the trailer. We’ve you know, we’ve covered the machine, the equipment, the product inside talked about overspray, how about about odors, odor issues at the job sites.

Don Clymer:
You stole my thunder, Travis. I was just going to ask.

SPF Insurance:
Well, you know, the odor situation guises is a real issue even for the whole insurance industry, because, you know, it’s really hard to really hard to put a claim on odor. So the only thing that would really protect you there is if that person can literally, physically, physiologically substantiate that the odor is causing physical problems to them. And as we all know, that’s that hasn’t been proved in any way, shape or form. So the our situation, as you know, has gotten so much better. And, of course, a lot of it has to do with the new equipment, the new technology. And of course, that alone has helped. And, of course, the training that everybody does, the CIA and NCSA and all the different groups that do the training. And I know you guys do it, too, as well, and they’ve done it forever and do a great job at it. You know, that has just come leaps and bounds on making sure that those odor situations don’t don’t occur very often.

Travis Pankake:
In fact, the one of our trainers that teaches on some of the classes, he says the only thing that gets an odor out of a house is a lawyer.

SPF Insurance:
And that’s got that’s got a lot of tricks.

Aaron Franzine:
Right. So so simply being annoying, that’s not an odor claim. It has to physically cause like a respiratory issue, a health hazard or something, but just not liking the smell. That’s not necessarily a claim. Is that right?

SPF Insurance:
Yeah. And you have to prove. Right. You’ve got to prove it. And it kind of gets back to, you know, insurance is designed to take care of, like Craig said, bodily injury and property damage that you’re legally liable for. But the odor situation can’t come back to both a a a product warranty type.

SPF Insurance:
Not necessarily a warranty, but but, you know, product malfunction, so to speak. That’s just a product. Both might not have worked correctly. Quite correctly.

SPF Insurance:
So that’s not necessarily an insurance time. Sure, yeah.

SPF Insurance:
And then also, guys, another good question for you. For four insurers, I ask and that’s really what what we want to talk about today. And we certainly appreciate you all having this on. And, you know, being able to to talk to some of your customers and that sort of thing. But the main thing we want everybody to get out of this is for all SPF contractors to ask the right questions when it comes to whoever their agent is. You know, we certainly know that that anybody would rather have local service if they could get it.

SPF Insurance:
And a lot SPF contractors do try to do business with their local agent, but their local agent, this doesn’t know the questions to ask. So one of the things that you’re going to want to ask when you purchase a general liability policy is in our industry, in the contracting industry, you have an endorsement called additional ensured endorsement. And that’s an endorsement that when you are a subcontract, you’re going to work for a general contractor. The general contractor, let’s say, is the one that’s building the home that he’s going to ask you for a copy of your insurance or a certificate of insurance. And he’s going to want to be named as what’s called an additional insured. And what that basically means is that your insurance is now reaching out and protecting the general contractor for anything that you as an SPF applicator may become legally liable for. Well, our additionally sure endorsement, and this is the question that you want your your customers to ask our insured endorsement issue with your endorsement is on a blanket basis. And what that means is that we get the certificate out. Additionally, you’re in endorsements all their blanket. It doesn’t matter how many certificates or how many Jeezy’s you work for in a year. We’re giving you that blanket, additional insured endorsement if you possibly don’t ask that question.

SPF Insurance:
And then you call into your agents, say, hey, I need to send the additional Chern endorsement to Don Clymer. He’s my general contractor. Then that insurance company is gonna say, you bet. We’ll be glad to do Atabay one hundred fifty dollars. So each time you add somebody it’s one hundred fifty dollars. So you may get a low premium upfront. You’re like, well that’s a pretty good premium. But then they ding you to death with the additional insured indorse. So that’s one thing that you want to ask. Number two, there’s also an endorsement called a waiver of subrogation. And a waiver of subrogation is a term that’s usually used with military top jobs or jobs for large, large corporations. I won’t go to the exact meaning of it, but that is an endorsement that’s also on our policy on a blanket basis. So last question number two, you want to make sure that your waiver of subrogation endorsement is on a blanket basis. Number three, you want to make sure that on your policy in contracting, insurance companies will offer you what’s called a per project. Aggregate and per project means that you’ve got three houses going on at one time or you’re spraying all three of your limit of insurance is one million dollars per occurrence.

SPF Insurance:
When you have a per project aggregate, that means you have a million dollars for each of those three homes, because as you know, in this industry, in a contract, the industry, you may have five or six jobs going on at one time. You’ve got a million dollars worth insurance, but you’ve got about four million dollars worth of work in front. So you want to make sure that your policy is written on a per project basis. And then last but not least, all the general contractors who have learned over the years from their insurance agents and that sort of thing. They also want your policy to be primary and non-contributory. What that means is that our policy for anything that we become legally liable for, we’re not going to reach up with that general contractor and say, hey, let’s pull your policy. So those general contractors have learned that over the years. And so they’re now requesting that endorsement on there as well. So all of those things that those aren’t on your policy as contracts continue to get more difficult and continue to get more in depth, you might get deigned to death by the insurance company by the time you get through an annual period.

Don Clymer:
So I apologize for that. My my computer just shut off. It just died. So I missed about two minutes of that. But we didn’t even notice, Don.

Travis Pankake:
I’m sure you didn’t mean that.

Don Clymer:
That’s a great thing about this whole working from home and trying to get everything set up remotely.

SPF Insurance:
But we thought you went to get a beer.

Don Clymer:
Oh, well, I might have had somebody bring me one in all series. It’s so far what we’ve heard is just a wealth of knowledge. Right. And it’s you know, I guess what I’m getting at is why would why would our contractors try to educate their their current insurance guy on all this stuff versus calling you guys? I mean, it just it makes sense. It sounds like you have everything wrapped up. You’ve been in it since ninety three. You you know, all the coverages our guys need. Is there a is there a difference of.

Don Clymer:
Coverages for a spray foam contractor versus just a fiberglass guys, you know, cause that that’s where I started was fiberglass. The majority are a vast majority of our customers are fiberglass. Do they need different coverages? Is that the same?

SPF Insurance:
Yes and no. Some of it some of it is similar. Some of it’s not. You know, back to your original questions of why we would want to, quote, try to train. Somebody else to learn the business, some other agent we know. Our main goal is to. No one help the customer first. Now, if we get it right, your business right. If we end up rotting their business, earning your business. If they are sold on on wanting to stay, quote, local, if you will, and their current agent can do the right coverage is can get them the right coverages and feels like they can do it adequately. We’re OK with that. We’re OK with that because we we just you know, we want them to know, hey, we’re going to we’ll be here. We hope we’re going to be here another hundred and three years. But most of the time, people appreciate that. We’re not we’re not hard core. Shove it down your throat top. Right. We’re in sales. Don’t get us wrong. That’s where we make our living. But, you know, we first want to show some folks that we’re here to service and. And then if we make a sale, that’s, you know, that’s great. We’re going to take care of the second part. There are some similarities between liability. But, guys, there are. 30 or 40 or 50, endorsements and endorsements are what change the policy.

SPF Insurance:
The instructor told me years ago, endorsements giveth, they taketh away. And you can’t it. They perplex us on some days of trying to understand what the policy does. There’s a basic policy is just like a regular Chevy car with a of real gas pedal. It doesn’t include all the bells and whistles. What it can do or what you know, what you can customize it to do.

SPF Insurance:
So anyway, there there are a lot of endorsements on these policies and you don’t understand them and go through know what your company, because insurance companies will put on endorsements. And not even tell us sometimes.

SPF Insurance:
And we have to go through every policy, even renewals, with a fine tooth comb to make sure that they haven’t put on an endorsement. And you would be surprised. And that’s one of the things Craig and I do, is when we talk to somebody new, we ask them to send us a copy of their policy of the entire policy, and we look the policy over. And I bet eight out of 10 times at least will we’ll pull the endorsement page. It will point out three or four major overflight exclusions. Yeah. Oh, really? Oh, you’re actually related to spray foam. And and they they didn’t have a clue. And honestly, their agent didn’t have a clue. And it’s not as if any other agent is you know, this is not us. Ogan mad about any other agent. There’s a lot of great agents out there. But if you don’t know what you’re selling, it don’t matter what product Turian. You just you’re gonna get caught. And there’s a lot of situations like that. So, you know, we don’t we’re not we’re not smarter than the next guys, just that we have done this for a long time. And this is a real it’s the industry has been around, but it’s still, as you guys would attest to, it’s still it’s still in its infancy stages. You know, without a doubt, it’s growing huge growing. But it’s it’s still new. It’s a newer concept, if you will, compared to the ways of old. So we’ve been doing this longer than anybody. So we feel like we know the product. We know the industry in it. If it takes some, we’ve had to we’ve had to educate some underwriters that didn’t have a clue what this product was, what it did, what it didn’t do. So we’ve we have, like Craig said, we have we have done a we’ve gone around the show to convince these insurance companies that this is a good, good industry. So we we feel like we’ve gotten done in some places.

SPF Insurance:
And another aspect with that, guys, and course this is where the rubber meets the road is when I claim it’s turned in. And that’s another horror story that we hear all the time. I’ll have somebody call in and that’s what somebody else. And they’ll say, hey, my Gestur, just call me and ask me questions about this and that. And looks like we’ve got some more store problems in this house and they’re blaming it all on me. And of course, that’s what happens in the industry. And I may not have anything to do at all with the SBF contractor has to do with the ICAC contract. And so our gestures don’t roll over, if you will. In other words, we know about more your clients. We know about Bluejays. We know about all this stuff. So it’s not a situation where our company or carrier goes after instance. Yeah. Here’s your check. The schol go home. So that’s really important, especially with the carriers for now on what they’re doing. Now, another covers that obviously that’s very important of these guys is workers compensation. And as all of you all know, workers compensation is what coverage to the injury to the employee? Well, one of the things that we have worked on over the years, and this is something else that we try to tell other agents and try to tell other SBF contractors, explain to your agent that applicator ing spray foam is like painting. It’s not the regular, if you will, unskilled labor, so to speak, of foot inside the fired insulation is very skilled. And so once you explain that to an underwriter and say, look, this is not somebody crawling around in attic just on his knees and that sort of thing, a lot about at all. And then we show a little video of what the applicator looks like. We show what the applicator system looks like. We show them how they advocator system. How’s that? How’s and kind of walks into the house. So we think that’s really important.

Don Clymer:
So there’s a lot we’ve talked about a lot of different coverages and I don’t know all the terms. But on average, if a guy wants to come in, one of our contractors and then you made reference to, hey, he could get a really low premium. But each time he’s going to get dinged one hundred and fifty dollars for this. One hundred and fifty for this. Hundred fifty for that on average, two to be fully insured to where you guys would be comfortable with, say, Dave Phyto. You know, a lot of people in the industry know him. What percentage increase would you say a guy who who started he started with a different agent. Now he comes to you guys, he hears this podcast. Is there a percentage say it’s going to be three? Is it going to be five? Is it gonna be 10 percent more than what he’s paying currently for an inadequate coverage? And I know I’m kind of putting you on the spot a little bit, but, you know, all these guys are I can I can see our listeners if I was a contract right now saying, holy shit, I don’t have this and I don’t have that, I don’t have this. But can I truly. And for a. It. I know long term. If they have one claim, they can’t afford it. Right. But is there. Can you say is it 10 percent more or is it 20? What are you thinking?

SPF Insurance:
Well, I mean, without Santa like a huge commercial, Don, we will be as competitive or even more competitive than what they’re doing. Sure. And the reason I say that is because, you know, we know in order to produce a special market, special niche program in our industry, the only way to do that is you have to convince the insurance companies to throw in some of these bells and whistles for free. And so even though we all know there’s no such thing as free, there’s going to say an insurance company is thrown something in Ferrari.

Don Clymer:
Come on. Yeah..

SPF Insurance:
I agree on a moral and disagree with it, but they make sure that the right that they have, you know, will consist of somebody so.

SPF Insurance:
Sure. You know, the big difference you run into. And this is another thing that people kind of get confused about on insurance. Is that right? Is different in every single state. So it’s not the same right in Minnesota as it is in Missouri or Arkansas. So a lot of times when a car can run into the guys at the shows and that sort of stuff and two guys will get together and they’ll go, Hey, man, I’m paying after the you know what for work comp or for general, I yeah, it’s killing me and the gas is hell. I’m only paying this and then they compare it with each other. And that’s just not a fair comparison because it’s not like mine chemical. It’s a different from every state, depending on obviously the litigious environment of that state. Sure. But as far as that competitive part is concerned, you know, we’re usually very competitive and it’s simply because we do have one of the lowest rates we feel like in the nation. You know, for it for what we do and probably wouldn’t be a five percent difference if any difference at all.

Don Clymer:
Well, and it’s hard to quantify, right. I mean, because you don’t know when you’re going to need it and when you need it. That’s that’s exactly the time. It’s like, oh, man, I wish I had that. Just like with the ring scenario I was explaining earlier is like, oh, well, there we go, there goes vacation.

SPF Insurance:
Know you don’t want to find out whether you’re covered or not, you know, during playing time. Right.

Travis Pankake:
What would be a good place for some of our listeners to kind of, you know, maybe ask questions, is it is it fair to go to your Web site? Is it you know, is there some sort of, you know, get what I’m asking?

SPF Insurance:
I want to say the phone honestly, we we have a lot of information on our Web site. We have a lot of information. We could send the email. But honestly, every customer has individual needs and individual questions that are some are more important to others in different scenarios and different coverages. So we just about anybody and everybody to just give us a call. And what number is it? Toll free? It’s eight eight eight eight nine three six seven, eight, seven.

SPF Insurance:
All right. And we’ll put all this information in the description and links and everything. So don’t don’t feel like you have to pull over and write this down if you listen to this car. We’ll have it all in there.

SPF Insurance:
Well, and also, we do want you to know, I think Karkh alluded to it early. We’re not going to twist these people’s arms to try to sell them insurance. No, no. Also, please tell your customers that we want to help them because we know how it works. We’ve been doing it one hundred three years. You may not need us today, but I’ll promise you somewhere down the road, you probably will. So by us offering this, you will free information. We know that it will come back to us probably at some point in time. And even if it doesn’t, it just makes the industry more safer. And that’s that’s what we want to know for sure.

Don Clymer:
So a lot of good information. What? Go ahead.

Aaron Franzine:
Who started on? No, I was my I have one more last question. Maybe you were just gonna go there. But I had my hand up first. So sorry.

Various:
Go for it. So we said let’s hand. Yeah, yeah.

Aaron Franzine:
Anyways, what what advice can you give some of our customers to reduce their rates as far as safety programs, you know, other companies, they’ve had like a stretch in a balance program and a pre job, brief and respiratory, any like that that could help our listeners get the best rates they can.

SPF Insurance:
I’d say the number one thing, quite frankly, is, is it? And then they sbf business, you need to shop around. That’s just the easiest way, you know, to get the best rate is to shop around. And, of course, any safety programs that you have. Present them to your agent up front. Don’t wait for the agent to ask you, hey, you got a safety program. I went in and explained to the agent, really explained to the agent what the process is and how it works, how intricate the, you know, the proportions are is and how it’s almost impossible for people to get off ratio now and explain to them what an applicator is, how they’re suited up. Explained to him on an applicator assistant is. So there’s just a lot of things that that SBF contractor needs to explain to his agent, you know, what what’s going on and what the process is.

Don Clymer:
Is there any discount offered for certification levels going through different trainings, being certified through the manufacturers, having your distributor I.D.? I come out and do riggings, rig inspections, anything like that.

SPF Insurance:
I mean, it’s something that we would could and would certainly sit down and visit with you all about. If you’re interested in the situation. Yes. If we can possibly put something together and go to the insurance company and say, look, these are IDR certified contractors and here’s the idea program and show it to them, one, two, three, then yes. That’s exactly how you develop a program in the insurance industry to get better rights than what other people have.

Aaron Franzine:
Ultimately, it just reduces the risk to the insurance company. Right. If they’re trained and certified.

SPF Insurance:
Are our companies, our underwriters? Are are all open ears. They really are open eyes, open ears, open minds about this product. There are some carriers that don’t even. They’ll they’ll turn and run. If you say spray foam. But our carriers, we’ve. We have, for lack of a better word, educated them about the quality of the product and the process. And so, yes, they like Craig said, they’re willing, they’re anxious. They want to build and grow this program. And safety programs. There’s nothing that turns an insurance company on more than that.

Aaron Franzine:
I remember shopping for insurance when I was a contractor some twelve, thirteen years ago, and I probably made 10 phone calls to different insurance companies. You guys were talking about guns earlier like a trailer. I got guns in it. Yeah. Well, also also mixing Rob Chemicals is a big no no. So I heard they were taking one and I, I finally was able to sweet talk and show them some videos and nobody had any clue back then.

Don Clymer:
But this is all and on you go. And then you say you’re mixing chemicals in a trailer and you look like Breaking Bad. I can see why it would run.

Aaron Franzine:
I’m thinking Breaking Bad or the premise for the show Ozark being die hard.

Don Clymer:
Exactly. Exactly. So this is a great sound advice and you know it overall.

Don Clymer:
Perfect. It’s been I think our guys are going to get out. Our listeners are going to get a lot out of this. One last question I have.

Don Clymer:
Before we wrap up is what is the craziest claim you guys have had come to spray foam related? I mean, is there any one that you guys are like, hey, you remember remember this guy? Remember final years?

SPF Insurance:
We’ve had so many. You don’t have to mention names. You don’t have to throw anybody under the bus. But is there one that just sticks out? Oh yeah. Yeah. OK. OK. Yeah. Wait, wait.

SPF Insurance:
Actually this is crazy too because this happened with, with Dave.

Various:
I, I would imagine not to name any names. Listen to this. Really had nothing to do with Dave.

SPF Insurance:
This is a great. Yes. Admit to the product. We have a local banker here in town that actually owns a bank. He had Mr. Farber come out and spray his attic, spray the underside of the attic area. We had a bad, terrible rainstorm and a lightning shot came down and shot right through the top of the roof into the attic. And in doing so, the neighbor across the way, if you will, this Yoma live out in the real kind of a rural area. He saw the smoke coming from the thing from the house. So obviously, call the fire. Amen. They all ran over there. Well, the foam obviously up in the roof kept the house from burning down because it literally almost say, say, the fire. But obviously, it didn’t ignite. You know what? I’m starting to insulation’s or anything can happen. So it literally was was was term the reason why the house did burn to the ground?

Travis Pankake:
That’s great. Don, add that to the the things that is great about spray foam.

SPF Insurance:
It’s lightning proof lightning. Now, I can give you some horror stories on overspray if I describe them. They may be some of your customers and go, well, why do you do that?

Aaron Franzine:
The same goes for later. Yes.

SPF Insurance:
If we find it 50, 75 cars, we’ve painted motorcycles. We find it all kinds of stuff. Unreal overspray. Bidding. Right. That’s why you buy insurance. And that’s one of the reasons when those customers call in, their first thing is, man, you’re not going to believe this credit card.

Various:
What I would say you ain’t gonna believe this shit. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Lay back. Stay back. There they go. Yeah.

SPF Insurance:
Tell them not to worry about. That’s why you buy it. You know, so we know what happens. And we do our best to make sure that our carriers don’t just dump our contractors because I have one little lower strike line. So we just we just make sure that we fly as much.

Don Clymer:
Well, guys, this has been a ton of information. Awesome. Where can give us the Web site? Give us the phone number again.

SPF Insurance:
Ok. So the phone number is eight eight eight nine three six seven eight seven. And then the website is W w w dot SPF insurance group dot com. Perfect Air Force if they want to e-mail questions. And on that be fine too. Because our e-mail addresses are obviously on that side. So if they want to e-mail it, some of the Kirker e-mail something to me. Both of them are honored, is seen as something.

SPF Insurance:
But like in our business, like Kirk said, it is easier for us to talk on the phone because there’s just a lot of terms and things that, you know, you could go on and email for five hours trying to.

Don Clymer:
Right. Right. And for the listeners, too, I mean, you can e-mail our value podcast at Idei Emman dot com. You can talk to your local idei rep and we can get you in touch with with these guys and just start asking the questions. And it may be a fit, maybe not. You know, we have a lot of customers in New York, Arizona, and they could help you out with the coverage down there. We you glad to.

SPF Insurance:
Yeah. Guys, we appreciate. We appreciate this opportunity and this to reach out to you guys and to your customers. And anybody out there. Yeah, we’re in the we’re in the business of selling insurance. Let’s not kid ourselves. But, you know, the way you get a sale is is, in our opinion, service first and let these folks know that, you know, we know the product. We know that the industry and we’re gonna be here, you know, we’re gonna be here after the sale. So we we always get each other with with Craig and I. You get two for one. So there you go. If we’re busy, we can’t a lot about it. But it’s it’s true. We tell folks if Greg’s on the phone or out or with the customer, ask for her. So and vice versa. So, I mean, we’ve got a full, very, very qualified, trained staff in this in this industry. Our staff probably knows more than 90 percent of the of the industry. Right. And this product. So anyway, we we feel like we can you know, we’re we’re we’re a medium sized agency. So we’re big enough to. Take care of the customer. You’re never going to be a number. You’re so awesome. That’s that’s that’s big for us.

SPF Insurance:
Yeah. We follow the same principles as IBRD US.

Travis Pankake:
I was just going to mention, you know, you’re been a great partner and, you know, I’m going to guess in about six weeks from now and this thing airs, you’re your e-mails and your phone lines are gonna be lighten up because I a lot of great information, you know, just specific to the different coverages needed questions asked. So, Craig Kirk, I appreciate you guys this time. I’m glad this mobile. I mean, we’ve got three different four different guys here. Well, two, two and one.

Various:
But we did. Well, you know, it only took one. How many tries? Six, seven tries to. Oh, you’re the guinea pig. And we’re talking about it. Yeah, exactly. We’ve got to sort it out.

SPF Insurance:
You we didn’t take the equipment out of the box till this morning because we’ve had so many games, you know, with just schedules and. Yep.

Various:
And it’s crazy now with everything that’s going on that this is one that actually work a little in the middle of a crisis. Yeah.

Various:
Maybe that’s a good sign. Yeah. Everything happens for a reason, right? Yeah. Take us away. Pancake, though.

Travis Pankake:
Thanks, listeners. You’ve been listening to our value with Craig and Kurt Campbell from Spray Foam Insurance Group. Everybody stay safe out there. And I think I’ve been hearing.

Various:
Wash your hands. Wash your car. Wash your hands. We bet you do. Thanks, guys. Thanks, everyone.

Thanks.

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EPISODE 09

The Buzz About Human Resources with Richard Hines, CEO of Buzz HR

When a small business starts to grow, they soon realize how much comes along with that growth. The intricacies of hiring, benefits, workers comp, payroll and so much more can be overwhelming.

May 2020  | 43:13

Join Travis Pankake and Don Clymer as they welcome Richard Hines, CEO of Buzz HR to help businesses of all sizes deal with these issues. Richard has a very broad and interesting background from running his own businesses to selling commodities and insurance. And this experience launched him into what drove him most – helping fix the challenges that so many face in running their day-to-day businesses.

Listen to this incredibly informative episode and see how Buzz HR analyzes a customer’s business with a buyer’s journey, in order to support only the services that are needed, and nothing that’s not. See how this approach will help you stress less and find and retain the best employees for your company.

4:06 – Richard Hines’ varied background

7:28 – Disaster relief brought new perspective

10:37 – How Buzz HR was born

18:34 – A whole new approach to HR

26:04 – Best in class partners to serve your needs

30:21 – That thing you forgot? Buzz HR remembered

34:14 – You don’t know what you don’t know

38:33 – The right company culture brings success

Season 1, Episode 9 Transcript

RVAL004 BuzzHR.mp3 transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

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Various:
So one of the joys of working from home, I’m locked in my office downstairs and my son is outside banging on the door, crying his eyes out to get in, and he wants to be on the podcast.

Various:
This is the one and only the original podcast where you can find yours and your business’s true value. You’re listening to our value brought to you by America’s insulations source idea distributors. You want to hear from the best contractors, suppliers and consultants that dedicate themselves to more than just survival in the business world. Industry professionals that are dedicated to excellence in every aspect of their business. Our value has Amala here to share that same motivation and knowledge with you. Tune in and grow more successful, profitable, educated and recognized business. Listen to the Value podcast to become the industry leader in your market. Find your value with our value.

Travis Pankake:
Hello and welcome back to our value brought to you by Idei Distributors. This is the Insulators podcast. We’re here to bring you industry experts in building science, fiberglass spray, foam, spray foam equipment industry and business and marketing leaders, as well as many others. Sit back, relax, take some notes. You’re listening to our value. I’m Travis pancake sales and training here at Idei alongside my co-host, Don Climber, national spray foam manager. How’s how’s it going out there in Corona virus world, Danny?

Don Clymer:
Stir crazy. It’s kind of like we’re we’re in Vegas. You can. Nobody knows what time it is. Nobody knows what day it is.

Don Clymer:
You can drink at any time. The kids are going crazy. It’s it’s fun. So it sounds like this is a good thing for you. Pretty much the norm. It’s a dream come true.

Don Clymer:
It’s a it’s it’s interesting. The kids are going a little stir crazy. Mom and dad are going stir crazy. But we’re we’re making it through.

Don Clymer:
All right. Well, what do we do what do we talk about today, Danny?

Don Clymer:
We are talking about Buzz, H.R., let’s say a new company, a fairly new, I should say, that deals with everything business related. Help, help small, medium, large sized companies deal with other H.R. needs and and so forth. But we’ll get into that with our guest here in a little bit. First, I want to mention one of our sponsors for today’s show is Natural Polymers. If you guys don’t know natural polymers, you need to need to go to idei insulation dot com and kind of read up on it. He’s got a really interesting story of how he started and kind of why we partnered with him. Just real quick. He’s located in just outside of Chicago, Illinois. This guy has done everything in the spray foam industry from being a chemist at a large chemical factory to insulating homes with his own business, building his own rigs. And now he’s at one of his top suppliers for spray foam. You can check them out at Natural Polymers, LLC dot com and give your local idei rep a call to discuss cinema. Any interest you have with natural polymers? Excellent. Yeah. So on today’s show, we have Richard Hines, CEO of Buzz H.R.. A little bit of background on this guy. So I met him a couple years back through mutual friends. And within the first probably two minutes, our conversation turned to deer hunting and ninety nine percent of our conversations focused around deer hunting. So this is going to be a little awkward for us to not workin deer hunting stories.

Travis Pankake:
So I guess it was probably deer hunt so we could talk a little deer hunting, too. We go down that rabbit hole.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. Hey, I’m all for it. But I got to know the guy. I really got to like him and sitting here thinking of guests for the show. He was a guy who came to mind when when I was thinking, like, how can we help our customers? This guy’s going to he’s a he’s a figure it out type of guy. He’s done everything from selling pork, commodities to a landscape company in Montgomery, Alabama. And then when Hurricane Katrina hit, you went back home to help out family and friends in that business just kind of started to grow to tree removals, roofing, carpentry, just anything out to or anything to help the community out. And then with the fall of the the housing economy in 2008 and then the Deepwater Horizon spill in 2010, it’s kind of time for him to make a change. So sold insurance for a while and then fast forward to 2019, offers opportunity presented itself that allowed him to run in a direction where he could focus on his passion, which is fixing the problems that challenge business owners most. And we’re about to find out what what those problems are and how he can help. So with that. Welcome, Richard Hines to the show.

Richard Hines:
Thanks, Don. I’m glad to be here today. I appreciate the opportunity to jump on and spend some time with you and Travis as well.

Don Clymer:
It’s good to see you. I haven’t seen you since you left Louisiana for Colorado, but coming back soon.

Richard Hines:
That’s what that’s what I hear. We’re looking forward to it. I’m hoping that we land somewhere close again.

Various:
You heard it here, folks. Danny’s headed back your way south. Watch out. I figured out where my family is not meant for being north of the Mason-Dixon line. That’s what you mean by S&P. Your line snow people.

Various:
You mean your wife isn’t. That’s true. You there. Quick. Real quick. Real quick. No offense, Vera, but I love you.

Don Clymer:
No, like I said, Richard and I are you know, we we are. Our friendship came together over deer hunting. And you can the text messages spike starting about September, timber up and go through January. And just different tips and tricks and what you’re seeing out there and who’s shooting what. And you shot a nice one this year up in Mississippi.

Richard Hines:
I did a shot of two hundred and sixty pounds. Hundred and fifty inch with a nine point. So minus deduction. I was a big deer was especially for for Mississippi. It wouldn’t really get him to that weight very often.

Don Clymer:
I was just going to say for for the people listening up in the northern states, in the Midwest, you think that that’s the only place you can get a big toad?

Don Clymer:
Surprisingly, when I moved down south, there are some big deer down there and a 260 pound deer. I don’t care where you’re from. That’s a big one.

Richard Hines:
Immediately it was a Minnesota deer, but it’s still if it’s a big deer for down here.

Travis Pankake:
Absolutely. I’ve got to thank Donny. He got me in a deer hunting about five years ago now. So I’m still a novice, but I could see the addiction. It’s definitely becoming a money crabber for me. My wife doesn’t like that, but it is addicting and it’s fun.

Don Clymer:
So the other thing that Richard and I share are the not just pictures of deer, but the pictures of the packages from Amazon that get delivered to the front door that we have to hide from the wives without the interception.

Travis Pankake:
The five don’t spill too many secrets on us.

Don Clymer:
Yeah, true. True. We might have added that part.

Travis Pankake:
So, Richard, we’re down to it. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to kind of break in here, too, and just kind of, you know, maybe not to do much detail, but Hurricane Katrina, man. That’s. Tell us a little bit about that.

Richard Hines:
It was so when Hurricane Katrina hit, like Don mentioned a minute ago, I had a landscaping company that I started up in Montgomery, Alabama, which is where I went to school in Montgomery, play baseball, had a great time, had a good bunch of good friends, good network. You’re going to start come back from port commodities and being up the God. I got a little bit outside and when Katrina hit, you know, the initial intent was, okay, look, we got a chain saw. I’ve got some landscaping equipment that I can go back south, I can get my parents place back in order and go go back to Congress. And so I took a couple guys with me that were on my cruise and came down to Louisiana. And when you got here that the amount of devastation, you you can’t even really put into words in terms of how much damage should be done. And so the first day we were here, I had bodies here locally, obviously had grown up here. But bringing Bobcat along and you start taking trees off of parents house and before you know it, you’ve got 15 people that have stopped by. And so I don’t care what it’s going to cost him, you can get it off my house next.

Travis Pankake:
So were you one of the first kind of people down there doing that made because you were busy?

Richard Hines:
We came down the day. I mean, it was the night after it passed. Oh, wow. Where what? Where I spent the majority of my life. I passed the exit getting off where I was supposed to get off my parents house in the house that I grew up in because they recognized I mean, you didn’t recognize. Everything was dark. There was no power, no nothing, no cell phones work. It was kind of it was real creepy, eerie, fairly.

Richard Hines:
The one of the thing about the people of Louisiana is that they come back together. That was, you know, it’s a good, wouldn’t it, Bill? Big town in the North Shore across the lake from New Orleans. But, you know, folks that we’ve grown up with, people that we knew, one after another after another. And it was like, well, I know a roofer. I know I know a carpenter. We can we can get somebody. So before we knew it, it was an assembly line method where it was. I know. I know. Guy, what do you need this town? I’ve got somebody that can can figure it out. Wow. That’s great. And off took a fun, fun adventure going into construction. I always worked outside and with my hands and while I might not have been the guy reframing a roof roofline, the entry had falling through. I still knew that I could put somebody good on the job and that it would be dealt with accordingly.

Travis Pankake:
Awesome. Wow. So he went from landscaping. What’s buzz? Richard, tell us a little bit about Buzzy H.R..

Richard Hines:
Yeah, so, you know, with that same mindset in place as many people in the industry did where you go, you’re not going to recommend somebody to come out and do a job, be it a plumber or be an electrician, whoever it is that you don’t trust, because there’s nothing worse than somebody coming to you and trusting your opinion on who they should use. Well, when they go out, they can do a crappy job. It’s a bad reflection on you. It’s it it’s it’s a cruddy feeling. Relationship networks work great in the construction industry. And to you, it’s a Don’s point. A few minutes ago when after the Deepwater Horizon spill, that’s that’s like the straw that broke the camel’s back in the construction industry, especially coming off the heels of 2008. So when I shifted over, I was like many insurance people seem like they make a good living. What do they do? And can’t be that hard. So I went off into the insurance world and started selling Business-to-business insurance and looking at my competition up there and the solutions that they brought it over know some of the headaches that insurance could put on a business owner at the time being deductions or worrying about how to get employees enrolled or what kind of coverage is all the minutia that goes on with that on a day to day basis. So if you look at it, you skin it back and look at the operations side. Well, what can make that easier for an employer? Because employers or business owners want to go grow their business, whether it’s insulation, whether it’s framing, whether it’s concrete. They want to be able to focus on their business. The stuff that sucks behind the scenes is a is a huge additional load work on the on the on the employer. And so you might ask, you know, what do you mean? What do you mean by that? If you’re starting a business, you know, awesome. I’m going to go. I’m going to go start my own insulation business and we are going to be regrade installers. What can we do this on our own. Exactly. But yes, all the money.

Don Clymer:
Yep. That’s a lot of our listeners right there. They they’ve worked for somebody and said, hey, we can do this on our own. Let’s let’s go do it. But why they knows how to install a bad or pull a trigger on a spray foam gun. They might be lacking in the business acumen, I bet. Right. They don’t know all this stuff. So that’s where that’s where a company like Buys H.R. comes into play. Right.

Richard Hines:
Absolutely. And for, you know, for business owners to that point down, you know, they they’ve got a great network. They do really good work. So that reputation precedes them. And they’ve gotten more work than at times than they know what to do with. If it was just getting up every morning, lacing up your boots, go into a job, spraying, being done with your job and going home at night as a business owner, they’d be I’d be awesome. You could just you could grow your career. You get as many crews as you want it, right. Go, go grow the business. But what what starts to become the problem that we’re going to we’re going to talk through a little bit of is crap. I’ve got to think about payroll. I look at it as employees paid. That’s step one. Step two. Okay, well, we’ve got to get their payroll taxes filed. Time step three. I’ve got it. You know, now we’re growing as an organization. I’ll get my employees paid. Oh, man. I’ve got workers comp. I’ve got to deal with Crowder with H.R.. I got. Yes, go ahead.

Don Clymer:
I was just going to say that the workers comp is one of the biggest, I think questions and concerns are guys going out and starting their own business right now, because from what I’ve gathered, talking to people across the country is it seems like for the spray foam contractor specifically, they get grouped in with the roofers for workman’s comp because that’s one of the oldest parts of the spray foam industry. So the insurance people are just I guess you’re a roofer and here you go. So I don’t know. You know, there’s a way, better way for them to navigate it. If you can help them, I’ll give them some insight as to what they should be asking, looking for talking to their insurance guy.

Richard Hines:
There is and there’s there’s a lot of options out there. And we can get it. We’ll get into the categories here in just a second. You know that in rounding out what his buzz is, if you think about all of those as it relates to benefits, payroll, workers comp, you know, you’ve got to put. But what does a benefits package, you know, because if you’ve defined benefit 15 years ago versus what benefits are now, they’re two totally separate discussions entirely. You know, then then it’s retirement. I mean, you look you when you find a good employer that you can trust what you have to do to keep them. A lot of employers will go. They’ll jump ship for a dollar an hour, not realizing that, you know, if you have a good benefits package, so to speak, and you can show them what that is worth, what the true cost of their employment with your company is. They’re not going anywhere.

Don Clymer:
And we just we just talked about that on a episode that we recorded a week or two ago about employee retention. Right. Especially for a huge issue. Yes. Especially for the younger generation. The millennials, you know, they want a career path. They want they want to see, you know, their how they’re valued within the company. And I think benefits is one that’s really overlooked in this industry.

Richard Hines:
It is insane benefits. And just to to to add a chuckle, and there’s something that the millennials and meals are total different. Buyer, consumer be there. They’re different mindset. And that’s not a bad thing. They’re taking a lot of things that we overcomplicated for many years and they’re making them easier. But I mean, something that I would have never thought of. We’ve been getting a lot of requests for it. Hey, we’re going to get pet insurance,

Don Clymer:
Pet insurance?

Richard Hines:
That’s right. For your dog. Is there anything they’re asking for it. So it’s it’s wild the way that you look at the consumer profile and the way that they buy versus the way that we always. I mean, they’re the ones that have gone the MSA out now. That’s a sure. It’s got a drip line I.V. in my arm of Amazon because I don’t have time because source on my hunting here throughout the year, you know, outside of it, it’s so so bus came together. It’s like. Well, what is the what is the buyer look like today? Because what worked five years ago doesn’t work today. It works today. Is it going to work in five years from now? And you hone it back into the at the millennials in it, they bring a lot of value to the table because they’re making things easier in a lot of ways. Sure. And what I mean by that is, is that Amazon.com with one of the things that we’ve noticed about her that I’ve picked up on about millennials, that they don’t like being told what to do. And I’m sure that I can appreciate that because they were they’ve been they’ve been picked on for a while that started getting old, but they didn’t wanna be told what to do. So the way that traditional packages have put together and put together is that, you know, it’s we’ve got a benefits guy. We’ve got a broker for this. We’ve got a relationship there. Peel all that back. Just because your tires flat down doesn’t mean you need a new a new truck. What do you need as a buyer?

Travis Pankake:
A tire. Yeah. But, you know, that’s exactly what you need, a tire.

Richard Hines:
But the sales guy is going to come in and they’re going to try and sell you a new truck. And so, you know, rims are they’re going to try and say, Isa, you know, you can never just hear what the buyers are looking for. And so with Buzz, you know that that’s where we are. You think about doctors, okay. Doctors hate Web M.D. because people come up and show up to the doctor’s office and they’ve already diagnosed themselves recommend right here for themselves to fix the problem. All right, great. We’ll look for business owners. Why are you why are you Googling? How many of you out there who have typed in Google before, best workers come, cheapest workers comp? How do I do workers comp? The easiest? What is worker’s comp? Where would it go? Yes. Why do I have to have it right? How do these nasty letters with bills on them in and it’s, you know, not to discount any one of these categories because H.R. you think of H.R., have you thinking about this? What would you say on H.R.? They get a phone call. I’m going to perform. I’m going to get.

Don Clymer:
I know our H.R. department real well.

Richard Hines:
So each one of these there, H.R. benefits, payroll, worker’s comp. I mean, they’re all I don’t want. If we classify them or categorize them as just for the sake of conversation is a vendor. Every one of them has their own agenda. The health insurance got to try and sell you every policy that you can because they’re commission driven tour workers comp, they’re worried about what you know, they want a good place here and they want to place your coverage and find your coverage. But at the same time, they’re not worried about the workload that’s heaped on to you or your payroll person. And, you know, for ninety five, I’d ninety five point eight percent of the companies out there, it’s especially small, you know. Twenty five and under 20 and under. You don’t either. Mr. Business owner or most business owner.

Don Clymer:
Well, a lot of times that’s our our contractor spouse. Right. Or somebody within their family that they know. And it’s just like here, here’s some cookbook’s go to it.

Richard Hines:
It is. And look, I mean, I was in the payroll world for I didn’t sell payroll, but I have a great understanding of it. And it it it’s it’s hard. It’s not an easy task to get set up. You hire new employees, especially if you if you’ve got a lot of turnover taking place. Yeah. I mean, it it’s miserable and you’re filing quarterly and you’re trying to get your taxes withheld remitted. You’re making sure you’ve got garnishments. I mean, just all those layers that go and just just specific to payroll, that’s before you even get into the rest of it. And so with with Buzz, what do we do? Look, we take you on a buyer’s journey. What do you new. That’s fancy as a sooner.

Richard Hines:
Yeah. It’s not trademarked yet, but it’s in process.

Travis Pankake:
Let me. Let me cut in here a little bit, too, Richard. You know, just kind of scanning your your Web site, Buzz Desh H. ARCOM, little plug for you. Looks like it’s kind of an al carte approach. Is that common for services that you provide? I mean, it seems to be kind of set you apart.

Richard Hines:
It does set us apart. You know, because a lot of them you would have to have one component and one component over another.

Richard Hines:
So you’d have to start with with payroll. You’d have to have one. One element or another in order to beat to to jump in with us. You know, to the point I made a minute ago about what do you need if if you need help in one specific area. We’re here to help you in that one area. If you don’t if you want it, if you want to bypass anything or you don’t need help in an area. Good. Leave it be. We’re not here to over the top sell you on the services that you need. But we are here to do is to keep you from going out there to the search engines and just aimlessly searching for solutions. Because, look, we’ve I’ve turned over a lot of rocks in my career and I’ve seen a lot of gravel underneath those rocks. But every once in a while, you come across, you’ll uncover a pearl, you’ll uncover a gem under there in by Jim. I’m talking about the partners that we have in each one of these categories. We look, if you’ve got a relationship, you Roker’s that you love good. Keep them. If they’ve you love them that much, there’s a reason you love me. You probably want to meet them too, because we work with best in class local relationships, looking to unplug anybody or break anything that’s working for you today. If you’d like to payroll, keep them. If you don’t let us intuition, let us send up to a better way to where it be easier for you administratively.

Travis Pankake:
And it looks like you guys can have a go at it from a consultative, consultative approach. Right. And you’re going to go in and kind of explore and ask questions and say, hey, well, you know what? That seems to work fine, you know, but. And then suggestive services, right?

Richard Hines:
Yeah. So if they think come nuts and they say, look, no one I got get payroll set up number two. OK, what’s your second? We stack rank based on the level of importance to you as a consumer. What’s keeping you up at night? What’s your biggest headache today? What’s on fire? We put that fire up at number two. What’s the next what’s your next biggest pain point? Let me give you an aspirin for that headache. Number three, we let them stack ranking based on what’s most to least important. And we address them incrementally and get them into, you know, into installed into a way to reduce that pain point for them.

Don Clymer:
So let’s talk a little bit about that. So if if one of our contractors says, hey, I really want to offer benefits because I’ve got a couple of guys on the crew that, you know, they’re lead guys and I want to keep them. I don’t want them to leave for another dollar an hour to the guy next door. Can they say they have ten guys, but they only want to offer health and retirement for three of them? Is that a possibility?

Richard Hines:
There there’s there’s a couple that’s a loaded question there, Don, because there’s there’s a few variables in there in terms of discrimination laws and some some things that you have to be be careful of.

Richard Hines:
But, you know, there’s ways there’s some creative ways that you can get in there and kind of find out. Right. As a business owner, where do you where you want to take your business? Where do you see yourself in five years and 10 years? I will. Based on what we’ve seen in other business owners do that have been successful and I’ve worked for them in terms of creating that culture and that true benefits package, I would I would recommend going this route or I would recommend going down that route. We would have further discussions and see, you know what, every group is different and one size fits all, that’s for sure.

Don Clymer:
So it’s kind of like business consulting, right? To the degree it is, it’s business performance management. I like it. Is that trademarked?

Richard Hines:
No, it’s just gotten written down to get a little little side credit there, then.

Travis Pankake:
Richard Huh. All these these catchphrases we’re helping out with today.

Richard Hines:
That’s right. It just you just it’s sparking thought. You know, Don, he’s good at that.

Various:
And I really get at. I am. Yeah.

Travis Pankake:
Coming up with small anecdotal things.

Richard Hines:
He’s been working from home, so probably hasn’t heard that much lately. Hear that. Or I’m just not that intelligent. I think you’re really smart. You’re maybe not.

Don Clymer:
So, you know, we keep hitting on the workman’s comp, the benefits. You know, there’s a lot of a lot of questions that our guys have. You know, just one of the one of our contractors I don’t know if we talked about this earlier in the show. I’ve already forgotten I’m going crazy. But he has gone off on his own. And, you know, he he’s worked for a couple different companies. And now is the time for him to take that step and start his business. And he’s like, you know, I don’t know what I what I don’t know. He’s like, you know, child support. How do I deal with a guy who’s got to pay child support? And, you know, can you guys help navigate those waters?

Richard Hines:
And that’s a great question. You know, so there’s a few things there.

Richard Hines:
So for the workers comp, look, worker’s comp. Guys, they come out. They buying coverage like the brokers get you set up on it. And they’re gone. Well, then you’ve got to understand. So there of course, there’s a few states that are that are a little bit more challenging. If you look at Ohio, Washington, North Dakota and Wyoming, I mean, they’re monopolistic states. So they’re a little bit more. There’s there’s more red red tape you’ve got to cut through in order to bottom coverage and get it set up in those states. But for the rest of us out there, you see or, you know, you really you don’t talk to your workers comp guileless. You know, a you’ve got a claim which nobody wants to do. Or when you get that letter, it’s like, oh, it’s time for an audit, boys. I’d rather pull my teeth out and go through an audit. It’s miserable for those guys, especially when I got 15 jobs go on right now. I’ve got too much to worry about. I don’t I don’t have time to go through an audit. You have to go through the audit. So the proof of concept of everybody wanting to have one central location to be able to manage all of their back offices, they can grow.

Richard Hines:
Their business isn’t new. You know, there’s been companies that have come out there and they’ve tried to do it all. And what I mean by that is it’s like, yeah, we’re we’ll be your broker will be your payroll. We’re going to be your workers. I will do it all. I’m not saying that bus doesn’t do that because nobody can be good at everything. And I that’s that’s just interest, you know, because your benefits, your payroll, your workers comp, all of those are when we’re flying at 20000 feet. There are some subterranean I mean, it is deep how much each one of us go in there hard. So when I use the analogy about turn it over rocks and finding those pearls, we’ve got best in class partners that specialize in each one of those areas. Now, Buzz, is your first point of contact with we’re like the, you know, the pilot, that it’s turning the dials in the cockpit, so to speak. You call us with everything. We get it corrected with our partners, and then we get you wrapped back into a consolidated bill at the end of the month. So it is one source, but it’s third best in breed partners in each one of those categories working on the same same Chessie themselves.

Don Clymer:
Are the customers dealing with dealing with each IRF or they are dealing with budgerigar jar?

Richard Hines:
Correct. Or they’re dealing with us where they were their client experience.

Don Clymer:
And you have people in each state or, you know, sales reps that go out and do face to face or is it all basically online?

Richard Hines:
High level is, you know, for an initial contact. You know, we run when I talked about that buyer’s journey, we do we do an analysis call. We find out where their pain points are. You know, then we put we do have people locally involved in all these markets that we that we introduce. That can be their local representation if they want to sit down, have a cup of coffee. A lot of meetings these days, as we can all attest to you right now, especially since we’re we’re not sitting in the same office. Everyone’s right. It is is holed up and in the wake of corona virus. But what is coronavirus going to do to you, to everyone moving forward? Is this going to change the way that this is operate? Is this going to change the buyer’s persona?

Don Clymer:
You think it’s going to change? Is this, you know, some stuff to a degree? Right. I mean, we can’t go through through something like this that none of us have been been through before and not come out of it with changes. So how does that affect our our little guy, you know, our contractors and excuse me, you know what what type of things should they be thinking of now to prepare themselves for if this does happen again? God forbid.

Richard Hines:
Oh, God forbid it doesn’t happen again. But thankfully, you know that the construction industry, I think, is only going to become stronger from this of here and welcome in there.They’re part of the essentials as far as a lot of stuff. Love a lot of clients that we have that we’ve been working with have been there. The construction hasn’t slowed down in any shape or form, and I don’t see that happening. But as far as the face to face meetings, the personal interaction is going to be distanced for at least of the next couple of months. But moving forward, what do people want? Because, look, I want to if I if I meet somebody once like you and I could do business together indefinitely, Don, because we’ve not because we just have a rapport from talking on the phone, but we know each other. Yeah. I mean, if you need me, I want to look the person eyes. It’s me personally as a as a buyer is that you’re running a business just to know that I can look into the soul of them. So a lot of it is done virtually now. But if they still desire that on the ground in person, then we’ve got somebody local that can that can facilitate that need as well. To your point about workers comp coming together, you know, the jumping back in. They score. We can set up pay as you go. We’ve got a partner that can set up pays. You go regardless of who they’re using for payroll kind of content. It’s an audit system where they don’t have to go through the audits. It takes on that responsibility for them. So it True’s up. They’re not overpaying. They’re not underpaying. It automates a lot of that on the back it and for them so that they don’t have to deal with the to the nasty grams that they get. It’s in the mail.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. And one of the things, too, is like just the standard H.R. stuff, right, that, you know, you you mentioned discrimination. You know, a lot of our other of our guys probably aren’t aren’t thinking of that. So how is there. How do I want to phrase it? How can how can Buzz help with that? Just general H.R. stuff. I mean, do you have, I’m assuming specialists and that have them help them write an employee handbook, that type of stuff, just to keep them in compliance?

Richard Hines:
Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, employee handbooks, a lot of companies out there will just go on and they’ll they’ll they’ll download or an employee handbook. Yeah, this looks good. We’ll use this one. Yeah. Well, each company being different and that that’s where the the the journey back to the journey again is that you as a business owner, you’ve got to have in your mind where you want it to go. You don’t want to just stay afloat. You got I mean, that’s the beauty of the American dream, is that you can take it, make it whatever you want to. There’s no ceiling as far as how far you can can go. What’s keeping you from getting there? What’s slowing you down? Well, I would win. I’m sorry, go ahead.

Don Clymer:
No, go ahead. I interrupted. So you.

Richard Hines:
And so the the you know, is it is an employee handbook. Is it policies and procedures? Is it just to review of what you’ve got in place today? The long answer short. Yes, we can we can help in all of those capacities. But with Buzz, you also get live advisory. So you’ve got an employee that showed up drunk for the fourth day in a row. You warned him the last three days. OK. Now we have to take action. He’s on 120 foot man lift and he’s about to fall off.

Travis Pankake:
So Heldens lasted 16 years doing that. And it’s only getting worse with this quarantine. He’s now he’s on the icy roof. Right, exactly.

Don Clymer:
But what if, you know, some of these guys are saying, holy shit, I need a handbook? What are the downfalls? I mean, what what could happen if they don’t have a handbook?

Richard Hines:
Well, it’s not what can happen if they don’t. But it’s it’s gonna be there to be their fallback from a policies and procedure side that when they win and if and when an issue arises. This is this is our plan to fix it, you know, with the documentation thing. Yet it’s having your you covered this what it really is. I mean, you think about coronavirus right now. Our government couldn’t even you know, they’ve been they’ve been fighting for the last two weeks over. We’ll go into politics for the day. But the bill. It’s a shame that they’re all the bullshit wrapped into it.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah. This is a No. Politics podcast.

Richard Hines:
Hey, I’m back up, y’all. Y’all can go. But some of the questions that we fielded in the last couple of days would would blow your mind.

Richard Hines:
I mean, from. From top executives at health insurance carriers to large group employers that are clients of ours said that the questions we’re fielding. Oh, my gosh. Really, you guys. You’ve got four H.R. people on staff full time and you’re asking us these kind of folks. So there’s just a lot of unknown variables that are that are rattling around up there. And that’s okay. And having somebody that’s that’s red, the red that’s in the legislative it’s in the documentation that knows the law to be able to substantiate the answer that’s given to them and provided on their behalf so that they can make an educated decision on the back end is paramount to any organization. And yet a lot of this stuff I mean, look, small business owners out here, I think it’s Madon, Donald, I’m just in chatting. That makes up a large percentage of the audience. There’s there’s grants there gonna be available. There’s a lot of things that are already going to that are written into the current legislative that’s not even been passed yet, that are going to they’re going to be beneficial to a lot of these guys. And it’s not from a take advantage of or make you less eager to grow your business. But there’s there’s things that are going to help you, and a lot of them won’t even know about it. What are they getting on Google and saying? And what am I had to help? Small business owner…500000 hits on that.

Don Clymer:
That’s what I was saying earlier. The guy I keep referencing is the he said, you know, I don’t know what I don’t know. Go on the Web site or give give the call to the 800 number you guys have and just say, hey, you know, I’m I’m starting a business and I need some some ideas on what I need to how to cover my ass, basically how to make me more efficient, how to build a, you know, have one contact that I can use for just about everything so I can go out, sell and grow my business. Right.

Richard Hines:
Absolutely. And look, you know, there’s obviously a cost for doing business that people people understand me. It’s just it’s operating expenses, you know? But when you you know, if you look at each one of these, you know, your insurance, your benefits, your payroll, your work is gone. All of those start to add up. But if you don’t know, it’s it’s it’s running like it’s Shipperd, and you’re more than likely you’re overpaying for the processes that you’ve got in place. You think about what’s your what’s your our worth at the end of the day? I know Don doesn’t love how much is it worth? Mine’s not worth much.

Travis Pankake:
And so the question I got for you, Richard, is so I’m sitting here, I’m listening into this, and I’m thinking to myself, I’m a I’m a small guy. I’m just a small business. Do I. Do I need H.R.? Do I need buzz? I mean, how is there a size that typically uses your services or can anybody might.

Richard Hines:
You might not. I mean, you think about looked as a five man group. I mean, where do they need these type of services to. They need H.R.. Probably not. But do they have questions? They don’t know they need some some help on the business side of things. So they need to better understand what what they do and don’t need to be doing. Do they know what they need to be watching for in terms of employee count, where when they do reach a certain threshold, then they need to take action here or there? We’ve got groups that are you know, they’re down to five main groups. It’ll just have some press, some some questions around automation features or worker’s comp or looking for somebody that can take and really run with the ball for them. Well, we’ve got some solutions wrapped around that. And then we’ve got some groups that are you know, when Buzz started, the intent was to really under one hundred to focus on that market where they may have one H.R. person. You know, some of these larger groups have, you know, one two hundred to two hundred H.R. people involved. And yet they still use some of the services that we’ve got because there is just a lot of moving parts when you get in those organizations of that magnitude.

Don Clymer:
Right. How do you guys go about and find your best in business providers or partners for these guys? I mean, what kind of vetting do you guys do for that?

Richard Hines:
Great question. So, you know, having been in the industry now for 10 years, I’ve been in war in several different hats and a few different organizations as well. It’s knowing the people and having the partners that stay in their lanes, specifically because a lot of people do cross back and forth that, you know, I might miss the best. I guess the best way to explain this is you’ve got somebody that, you know, you trust in payroll, but they sell workers comp and they sell benefits. Sure. Well, then I’ve got health insurance brokers that we partner with. Well, they don’t sell payroll, so. So the payroll person, if I have a payroll client, they’re going to be trying to sell the benefits partner or, you know. So we don’t want that cross-selling taking place because we don’t want no one. We don’t let the client feel like I might get multiple calls from different vendors that are supposed to be all on buses. You know, sure, we’ve we’ve vetted them out. We know we don’t want we don’t know that there’s maybe more partners out there that we’re looking for. Look, we’re always open to have a good conversation.

Don Clymer:
You know, given to. We talked a little bit about the millennials and that stuff. Is there any study out there or have you guys put any data to it? If you if a company of this size offers these benefits, the employee retention goes up by X, or is that still, too, at its infancy?

Richard Hines:
It’s still somewhat in its infancy. And main reason being is because the data wasn’t collected on the you know for sure. You don’t have any real estate case studies going to case studies, but you don’t have any long term effects of that. Well, I will tell you, just from having from seeing a lot of businesses that are they’re just ultra successful versus ones that really struggle is if it’s looking, it’s with culture, with hiring the right people. Know it’s with having a good team. You know, when you when you found your company, I mean, every business owner I’ve ever met has is passionate about what they do. They’re proud of businesses they’ve created and make they grow into something. It’s wildly successful in a short period of time. And before they know it, they forgot the people that brought them to the dance. Yeah. And so that’s a challenge for them that, you know, you can’t forget who brought you. Otherwise, it’s going to be you know, it’s easy come, easy go. They get passed up on the ladder, fallen back down. Yeah. There you go. To their unsuccess. But it by starting with the people hiring the right people and having them on your team, you can’t you can’t take it. You can’t overlook that or forget that.

Don Clymer:
Right. Well, I think this has been very educational. Hopefully it’s helped out some of the the listeners out there just at least to to start the questions. Right. And like you said, they might not need everything but to pancakes point. You know, it’s all a card. And, you know, they keep saying, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know. I would say it’s worth a call, you know. You instead of dealing with five different people to to help your business grow, you can have one point of contact and work with the best in the business. To me, it’s kind of sounds like a no brainer.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah, it’s kind of a I got a guy mentality. I’m mean, I call Richard over it Buzz H.R., you know, instead of having to figure out who to call. I’ll call your guy. Yeah.

Richard Hines:
That’s what got this whole thing go. I got a guy who used to drive me nuts and didn’t drive me nuts. I was kind of proud of it. Came the going joke at our headquarters here in New Worlds from my previous employer. People always said, hey, do you know anybody in the alarm industry? You can do it? Yeah, no, guy. When you look and get to work long before they sit in my office, be like, hey, do you know. Yeah, I know what you need. Yeah, I got that guy for sure. And so it’s, you know, it’s people. Right.

Various:
Can you guys hear that. I’m sorry. Can you hear that. Is that a monster? A throne of rhythm. It’s sort of one of the joys of working from home.

Don Clymer:
I’m locked in my office downstairs. My son is literally outside, banging on the door, crying his his eyes out to get in.

Richard Hines:
And it sounds like a party.

Various:
What a way to end it. He wants to be on the podcast. He’s got a deer hunting story for us. I don’t know if I’ve made it through a podcast at home without being interrupted by one of my kids. No, you haven’t.

Richard Hines:
There was a news interview the other night. It was funny because the guy was live on. I don’t know what network it was on. This is a little boy like come up behind him. Another kid comes in. He’s in a stream shared in Elsom. The nanny or the mom comes sprinting in the room, grabs the kids and dragging him up with the horse. Welcome to my world. We’re all we’re all live in it, my friend.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, now, Richard, we we set up a a page on on your website. It was a buzz dash HRR dot com forward slash Idei. Correct. Yeah. So if the listeners out there, if you have questions, if you want more info, go to that buzz dash, H.R. dot com forward slash Idei. And I believe it’s just kind of a contact form page.

Richard Hines:
It’s a contact form landing page, but it’ll let us know, look, you know, kind of give us a little bit of background on you in terms of.

Richard Hines:
All right. These these guys come they work with IDBI Direct. Not that we treat anybody bad, but there’s a little bit more eyes on it that can make sure that yellow kind of white gloved a little bit dirt a little bit more. And, you know, we’re going to treat you right either way. There’s there’s some savings that are available and we’ll we’ll be able to take care, you guys.

Travis Pankake:
Perfect. Excellent. Well, Richard, thanks. Richard Hynes from Buzz HRR, appreciate your time today. Great insight.

Travis Pankake:
We hope this drives a lot of traffic your way in about six weeks when this gets posted.

Various:
Look forward to it as well. Thank you guys for having us. Absolutely. Thanks, buddy. I appreciate it. All right, guys, we’ll talk soon, okay. Take care, my friend. You as well. Great meeting you. Even if it is over the Internet, how much? I’ll be off your way as soon as they let us fly again. Right. Excellent. Yeah, well, we’ll meet out in the Deerfield. All right. Thanks, everyone, for listening to our value. Stay tuned for the next episode.

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