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EPISODE 11

Have No Fear of Fire with IFTI/Paint To Protect

May 2020  | 52:20

There’s no worse tragedy that can happen to your home or business than a fire. And there is one company out there that is dedicated to putting that fear to rest.

Travis Pankake and Don Clymer invited their good friends Gary Wolf, Brad Glazier, and Nick McCartney from IFTI/Paint to Protect, manufacturer of the industry leading DC315 intumescent coating, 15-minute thermal barrier and Ignition barrier fire protection of spray foam insulation.

This group of experts gives in depth information about all of their products, the right questions to ask when looking at fireproofing, new continuous insulation systems, what other providers may be trying to hide and above all, that with Paint to Protect, the proof is in the testing. No one in the business is as stringent with their testing and applicator training. You know that when you choose IFTI, you won’t have to worry about meeting code, passing inspection or suffering loss from fire.

5:16 – Fascinated with fire

12:09 – The proof is in the testing

13:51 – All testing is not created equal

19:07 – Continuous insulation systems

22:12 – The right questions to ask about your coating

24:02 – Buyer beware

29:37 – Certified applicator training

33:22 – Preferred application methods

48:17 – Alternative to attic sprinkler system

Season 1, Episode 11 Transcript

RVAL010 Paint to Protect.mp3 transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

RVAL010 Paint to Protect.mp3 was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best audio automated transcription service in 2020. Our automated transcription algorithms works with many of the popular audio file formats.

Paint to Protect:
If you’re afraid that somebody is three hundred dollars cheaper than you because of the coding, you’re probably in the wrong industry. Understand that the code official comes and goes, oh, you use DC 315 rubber stamp.

Various:
This is the one and only the original podcast where you can find yours and your business’s true value. You’re listening to our value brought to you by America’s insulation source, Idei Distributors. You want to hear from the best contractors, suppliers and consultants that dedicate themselves to more than just survival in the business world. Industry professionals that are dedicated to excellence in every aspect of their business. Our value has Amala here to share that same motivation and knowledge with you. Tune in and grow more successful, profitable, educated and recognized business. Listen to the Value podcast to become the industry leader in your market. Find your value with our value.

Travis Pankake:
Welcome back, everybody, to another edition of Our Value. This is Travis Pancake alongside my co-host. And when I say alongside a computer screen across from me, I don’t Donnie. We are doing good. Travis, the walls haven’t closed in yet. Are you still quarantining in your pillow fort?

Don Clymer:
No, I had to take the fort down. I just I couldn’t take another night. A zombie hunting with Nerf guns. It’s well. What are we doing today? Who are we talking to? We are talking to our longtime friends and partners, to Idei and myself personally.

Don Clymer:
The boys from International Fireproofed Technology Paint to protect End or DC 315. Take your pick on what you want to call them, because I think everybody listening to them refers to them as one of those three, if not all, all at the same time. I FTI is a manufacturer of the industry leading DC 315 into Mesic Coning 15 minute thermal barrier and ignition barrier for fire protection of spray foam insulation. In addition, I FDA offers highly tested Firestar products into messa paint, fire retardant paint, thermal barriers and fire protective coatings. I have these products help stop the spread of fire, smoke and hot gases over combustible substrates such as cables, wood, gypsum and fabrics. Equally important, I have t’ai products were designed and tested for the global market and are fully listed and compliant to many international standards. Standards include NFPA, ASTM, UL, ULC, Intertek and FDM. And today, Travis, we have with us Gary Wolfe, the executive vice president of FTI, Brad Glazier, technical director, V.P. of Testing and Accreditation, and Nick Macartney, national sales director. Welcome, guys. Hey, fellas.

Paint to Protect:
Hey, guys. Yes. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks. I’m sorry. I’m Gary Wolf. I’m having a little bit of problem with my video. I think it’s on quarantine’s. So they be in California. They really locked us down. OK. So, again, it’s great to talk to all the IDF people, and I’m sure you know anything they might have questions or any of your listeners might have questions about. And tell us a little bit about our company. So, yeah, thanks.

Don Clymer:
Thanks for coming. It’s good to see you guys. Usually we’ve bumped into each other a few times since the first of the year, and we’re off to a good start with the two regional meetings we did. But then it took a hard stop.

Paint to Protect:
Yeah, it was tough because we were actually going out to Boston. Yeah. And we were, remember. Right. I mean, up to there, I think you were at the airport. You get on the plane. Do I not get on the plane with Dr. Frank? He’s come out here, so. Yeah. Piracies it’s all you. But now it’s been tough. But but still the business does good and we’re happy with it. For what’s left out there.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Travis, you had something.

Travis Pankake:
I was just going to say, did you inform them that they’re sponsoring this podcast or.

Don Clymer:
That’s today’s episode is brought to you by FTI. I’ll tell you how much the sponsorship costs after the after the show.

Paint to Protect:
You just you showed us the Agassis some check. It looks males close. According to the Bay Area average, May twenty twenty four, but a dark area.

Don Clymer:
So, Gary, is it true that you are the inventor of Atari?

Paint to Protect:
Well, I was actually the first salesman for Atari. I was way back. I actually owned the company by the name S.O.S. And we developed games with E.A. and Activision. Wow. I mean, it was not only for Akari, but also Kleagle vision and television and Magnavox Odyssey. And in fact, I brought some of the first computers in the United States, personal computers. You saw.

Don Clymer:
How the hell did that lead to fire protection?

Paint to Protect:
I didn’t say I did a good job, actually.

Paint to Protect:
I retired young and I came back in because I’m so fascinated with this product that, you know, all kidding aside, they they haunted me for almost a year to come in and run the company and build it. And they told me there was a paint and I was just basically like a housekeeper. And you paint. You. Finally, this true story, they they put little army men, no little green army men that we played with rebels and it them into the paint and they put them out in the warehouse floor and they took a blowtorch and would just try to melt those suckers, you know, and they just puff up and these big marshmallows. And lo and behold, if that didn’t pass up, that became the way I presented it.

Don Clymer:
You know that that’s gonna be my my science experiment for homeschools this afternoon. I was going to do the Mentos and Coke and a BBC pie, but I think we’ll go blow some stuff up.

Paint to Protect:
It’s funny because people are fascinated to know when when you have a fire that we like to see people Hellfires, that’s what we’re there for. But, you know, everyone comes out the neighborhood. I mean, you know, they sit me watch. We had a fire when we first started down, Alabama controlled fire, and they actually brought out a popcorn truck and a hotdog truck. There was that many people going around to watch this house. Cheese, you know, and we sat there in the room that we had paid with our product. They could not get to burn, so they had to actually bring eight wooden pallets and sock’em and kerosene and draw national. Then it burned up and back and the windows blew out. But yeah, it is. So we’ve got involved. Yes, I was in the video game industry and I came back and we launched the product both in retail and in the marketplace. And it’s been a long road since 60 years now. I haven’t got many older 16 years of doing it and really being kind of go, well, we are the leader in the world on the technology without it. And our montre, when we started, we said the proof is in the testing and that’s that’s been the way we develop the line in company.

Don Clymer:
So before we get into the products and the differences and what customers should be looking at, I’d like to go kind of round the horn and just talk to Brad and Nick how they got into it. Brad, you’re a you’re from. Move down to the states.

Paint to Protect:
Pretty interesting time and decide to move into the states, that’s for sure. So so not only are you quarantine in your house, your quarantine to the to the state or the country, aren’t you?

Paint to Protect:
I am quarantines beyond quarantine. You can’t leave the country at the moment. You know, in the waiting game, liberal games for residency status. So it’s been interesting times. Definitely interesting times. But now I should be happy to be down here. Like it. Definitely better. Rather be quarantined in 90 degree heat then minus 90 degree. Cool.

Don Clymer:
Yeah, that’s what my wife is saying. She’s she’s hating it right now because all of our friends in Louisiana are posting pictures of their quarantine out, whether pool or on the boat and or three to five inches of snow, it seems like every day. Yeah, that’s exactly it. I think I’ve got more of a tan now. What’s going to be going on that I have before yours work again? So it’s not too bad. How did you end up with with Gary Helfgot?

Paint to Protect:
I mean, this crazy guy, I picked him up on a hotel sidewalk one day in Halifax and I said, here’s his dude.

Paint to Protect:
Let’s let me let me see what he’s up to. I know I was. I can’t do spray spray foam backwards. So I started at probably fifteen, sixteen years ago as a spray foam contractor and slowly built that up into a specialty building products distribution business. So get out of the contracting side and get more in to the supply side. So a very tiny, itty bitty version of a nice idea in Canada. And through that, I was looking for solutions for fire protection or bomb. It kind of came across this company called Life. I called them up one day and I was kind of the beginning. I was still still running the other business for awhile. We got products tested in the Canadian market and then I or a conversation that a beer one night with Gary’s. Well, she’s worked for us. That was six six six six. Nappier isn’t gonna Alsup like that. So it seems longer. It does develop here. It seems a little longer.

Don Clymer:
So that’s why I’m wearing a hat.

Paint to Protect:
I’m about to go quarantine head shave for my daughter here. Two minutes.

Don Clymer:
I told my daughter, I said two more weeks. If I can’t get a haircut by then, you can have at it and do whatever you want. So true. How about you, Nick?

Paint to Protect:
I come from a background in sales, so I got into sales probably about fifteen, fifteen years ago. I originally started working with a window treatment manufacturer. That kind of tailored to that multi-family industry. I did that for about five years. I ended up getting picked up by another company that had more material to offer. Just went out there and absolutely killed it up and develop three different territories and decided that it was time to go off on my own. Started my own supply company, Taylor, and go to multi-family commercial markets. And did that for about four years and got a great opportunity to join the team here at FTI with Brad and Gary and the rest of the team and decided to take the plunge and have not looking back then. So I’ve been on board for about a year now and learning a lot. I can definitely tell you that. And everything is going great so far.

Don Clymer:
Good, good. Well, you know, Gary, you said that the proof is in the testing earlier. Let’s talk a little bit about the testing of of DC 315 and kind of what sets that apart.

Paint to Protect:
Well, great question, Don. And it really it has set us apart. And I got to be honest with you, a little bit of it was my naive eagerness. I think I was in the industry for about nine years, so I watched some spray foam. OK. I know nothing about my job is to know about how to protect people, not how to put it down. So when I came in, I said, listen, I’m going to get involved in this, but we’re going to we’re going to have to test this thing and retest and tested it. And I want to find out what the home industry does to protect themselves from liability. So that’s where the testing came in, because we found out that they did OK. That really at that time, there were a couple companies that had one test. OK. And all the phone manufacturers were clamoring to use it in spite of the fact that the coach said they couldn’t use it. So we like Paul. OK, it is interesting. Why would I get involved in a building? The company that has codes, IBC Iodide or C, you know, on I think we’re in 27 countries or something. Now, you know, everybody has different codes, but not paying attention to it. So our montre, the proof is in the testing was to highly test the product. I work with many different brands of foam. You don’t just calling up for about 90 days and finding out about things like third party validation of manufacturer, how to properly label your product, how to reduce liability, how to do. How to do. How to do. So I said, OK, from this moment forward, which we hadn’t done any testing, we will only just like we are, a billion dollar phone company and liabilities is our main concern. And it wasn’t as much our liability because time if we use it, if you’re there to protect from a fire, fire ice wins at the end of the day.

Paint to Protect:
I mean, we don’t have like a fifteen year fire barrier. We have a 15 minute claim. So in doing that, we developed our line through testing and third party auditing and eventually went out and developed the AC 456, the current acceptance code for foam and coatings. And I think we’ve ran somewhere north of 300 tests. We’ve tested every foam virtually in the world and to standards that are way beyond 15 minutes. I think we have our stuff coming out in the next week or two. We just passed in a fee to 85, the first legitimate one. OK, what do you mean by that? Well, again, Don, you know, it’s one thing to say you pass a test and even example, there’s currently running around right now that they passed the test. And you can quote, the only people that don’t agree with them is UNFPA. OK. A life safety because the. And you. Well, and most of the building science engineers in the industry. Because just because you pass a test doesn’t mean you comply the codes. OK. And that’s the kind of stuff going to action. The proof is in the testing. We’ve always made available if you want to see any of my raw testing. You want to see testing. No. To want to see videos you want. And again, it’s not good enough for her. I have to I have one validation. We go out and we get companies like Johnson Hughes and you know, you well and and and and on and on and on to revalidate our tests, to look at it from the very beginning to tell their test as well.

Don Clymer:
I have a question I want to interrupt you. You said just because you pass the test doesn’t mean you meet code.

Paint to Protect:
Well, sure. You know, there’s all kinds of examples, like one of the hardest things is keep in mind that a coating, OK? There’s other things to go. I’m more concerned by coating Zobrist with DC 315. And there is criteria in the eye know in the international building code, in international residential code and in local code books and everything else, OK.

Paint to Protect:
You have to you have to meet that code to be, you know, a compliant pest. OK. We are what’s called an alternative. OK. So we’re an alternative to a thermal barrier. In order to do that. We have to show via the NFPA to 86 tests that we are as good as gypsum. OK. And we do everything that Gyptian Gypsum does as a prescriptive. But we’re not allowed to call ourselves prescriptive. We are an alternative. So there’s there’s my example done. If you if you read it, let’s just say for the sake of this conversation has 11 criteria to being. Being consistent as an option over a prescriptive. And we all meet three. We can’t say that we meet a prescriptive code. OK. So I can pass the test. You see, I permit eight of the things that are required. And it’s so confusing for code officials, nine contractors. OK. And it legitimately is confusing because the codebook is under a constant update. Constant update. Let me give you an example of that in the twenty eighteen NFPA like safety codes.

Paint to Protect:
It clearly seems the only way that you can use a coding or an alternative to a prescriptive. Which again is like our coding. OK, and leave it as the interior finish. OK. You have to run in 26 days period. There are no other exceptions. OK.

Paint to Protect:
So where’s these other companies? Why don’t they publish in an app P2 eighty six. Because they’re not running it. OK, so they play with the codes and they come back to contractors with confusing language. They point to a couple of places in the code book and they go, oh, well, it’s signed by the president of the company. It must be legitimate. And that’s when that’s when the crap hits the fan. When a fire marshal comes in and goes, hey, this isn’t good, Travis.

Travis Pankake:
So, Gary, for the listeners, what exactly is the NFPA? Eighty five testin. We talked to what it’s like we’re third graders.

Paint to Protect:
Yeah. It’s basically for the exterior buildings. OK. So it allows you options or, you know, different options for the film industry.

Paint to Protect:
Besides using the prescriptive planning SPRADLEY one jumping on a little bit.

Paint to Protect:
Yeah. And now it sounds really big. You know, it’s become a bit of a lot more a bit of a big deal.

Paint to Protect:
We’ve all seen these big fires in Dubai, you know, going up to outsides of these buildings. We had the very devastating one and the Grenfell Tower, London a year and a half. Two years ago now. Yeah. In which fire it actually started on the combustible cladding that they had installed on this building. So as we’re getting into more architectural designs and finishes and we’re steering away from, you know, the old school buildings that were correct, could masonry and, you know, things that weren’t combustible. Now we’ve got all of these different glazing and architectural and aluminum panels and composite panels, all of these different items that go on the outside of buildings. Well, now you don’t have the fire protection and the brick or masonry would have provided. So you’ve got to have some way of controlling the fire, being able to burn off the outside of these buildings. Spray foam has been eliminated from from competing in that marketplace for four. Since really it came about and the focus was more on things like Brockwell, you know, non-combustible mineral fiber type insulation materials. So now you’re seeing more of a push to this, what we call continuous insulation systems, where they’re trying to get the insulation on the outside of the building because it’s continuous. You know, you get far more efficiency out of that insulation instead of putting it between studd cavities on the inside of the building.

Paint to Protect:
You go on the outside foams. Obviously, the best place for it is on the outside of the building. It’s drainage plain. It’s your brandenberger air barrier insulation. Everything’s done in one one step. So it’s a very easy area for it. It just needed some ability to have some fire protection to it. Then these architects could go and design these buildings with all of these different types of architectural sites. And so. So we spent a lot of time working on the application, the task itself. And it’s kind of what goes to Gary’s point where the proof is in the testing. Well, I could just go and run the NFPA to eighty five fire tests to say, hey, I passed the test. But what about what about lifespan? What about moisture content? What about free sourcing? What about all of these conditions that you’re now going to be exposed to in that application? We answer those questions. You know, we we make sure when we’re going to market with the product, we have all of those other questions to answer. We’re not saying, hey, we passed the fire test. You’re good to go. You know, the fire test is only one small piece. And really, that’s kind of where our work starts. It’s like I I’ve proved my concept. I can pass the fire test part of this. Now, am I suitable to be used in all of those applications?

Don Clymer:
So are you saying not all coatings are equal? Oh, corellas.

Paint to Protect:
I wonder if I got my cue card.

Paint to Protect:
There you go. There you go.

Paint to Protect:
There is a huge difference there, Don. Let me tell you some as as a company, we’ve had years and 20, 25 percent of our business has been remediating jobs that misrepresented their products. You know, there’s actually a company out there. The chapters, Chapter 26, the international building codes, 26 oh three that go through all this technical crap. And they ran a test called the UBC 26 about, oh, I don’t know. Twenty five years ago, they actually put a letter out to the industry. It’s still out there all over the country that the international building codes were so impressed. They named the chapter after their test, which, by the way, was not. It was what were what an appeal. But don’t mention those parts of they actually today get millions of dollars a year where they’re calling with that twenty five year old test over one letter from the president of the company.

Various:
Yes, I it yes, I have good.

Paint to Protect:
In our opinion, our engineers believe it passed one because it passed one. So you don’t have any engineers on staff, by the way. There’s a one of my little friend.

Don Clymer:
What should our listeners when they’re looking at it for a coating, what’s some of the key things other than so I mean, we talked earlier, just because you pass the test doesn’t mean you make code. What should they be asking and what should they be looking for to make sure that that it does that they’re not going to be if something bad does happen, God forbid, a fire or whatever loss of life, that they’re not going to be held liable for this substandard.

Paint to Protect:
Go ahead. Let let me just throw a little quick on that and then that’s a great question, Brad. But, you know, I just want to say it really goes back to the proof is in the testing, we give you not only one way you can to give third party sign up. You don’t get anything necessarily from months that says, you know, hey, we’re the best and the greatest and all. You know, despite what we might see in a call like this, you know, we want you know, basically we’ll go in front of fire marshals all the time, sometimes two, three, 400 at a time.

Paint to Protect:
And we’ll get up on stage and say, listen, everything I want to tell you today is a lie.

Paint to Protect:
Give me just a what? Well, it is. Unless I give you a document. Yeah. OK. Third party that meets the current codes that you go back to improve that. We actually did what we said. So just a little bit of homework done and I’ll never get burnt. Most of the time they’re loud and we don’t understand it because the coating might be five gallon cheaper. A gallon. Ten dollars cheaper. It just doesn’t have testing. It’s the only difference. If somebody dies, you’re going to jail. You’re responsible for all the life there. You know, they’re going to force you to pull the foam off the job and redo it and your nickel. But you did save ten dollars a gallon. It just doesn’t make sense.

Travis Pankake:
Gary, why? Why is third party testing not required? Why can you just do the test and say that you passed it?

Paint to Protect:
You can’t, Travis. That’s the point. OK, so one thing to be suspicious of is letters from the company that say they meet the criteria, OK, but they won’t show you. OK. So simple things that you do. I want to see a copy or test. Well, we don’t have to show you that.

Paint to Protect:
We have an evaluation report. Great. And I want a letter signed by the evaluation report like Intertek or whatever it is. I want something from them sign that says that you comply and meet the codes, not just an evaluation report, but just a test easer, you know, I mean, there’s test facilities out there.

Paint to Protect:
They’re they’re they’re in a business of fire testing stuff. So I can go to a fire lab and say, hey, I’ll run this test. You run the test, you get a data report back from. It doesn’t mean that it was actually certified, doesn’t mean that it was validated. Doesn’t mean that any of the coding was third party sample. Like when we do a test, that’s third party comes in where it is the production of our code are we produce tonight totally the same way as the pale that we send out the to this guy saying just because they had it tested doesn’t mean it pass the test either.

Travis Pankake:
Now you could say I. I tested it.

Paint to Protect:
Yeah, I tested it. Hey, I ran this test and without providing a report, you don’t know what the results of that test actually were. We see a lot of times where guys are accepting a data sheet that says, hey, I’m a one out of paint. Well, when our paint on what is it on steel? Is it on wood? Is it gypsum? What? You can’t just say it will one out paint your ear, always dealing with the assembly that you’ve tested. So you don’t have running a test is able to be. One meeting code requires all of these other steps where you’ve got the third party validation day to witness the test. They watch you put the coating on. They measure the amount of protein that’s on there. You know, you get these other ones where sample which submitted directly by the client to the lab. Well, there’s no oversight over that. You don’t know how thick the coating was put on. You don’t know what you’re telling. You don’t know any details. I’ll just say this. They sent us this. We expose it to fire. And here’s what it did all year.

Don Clymer:
Are all your reports and letters and all that stuff available at paying to protect ICOM Bank to protect our money?

Paint to Protect:
We got everything out there. Third party listing reports. We actually have what we call our matrix, which does kind of become the industry standard for like your to your question earlier. How does a contractor know or what do they ask for? We have up on our Web site The Matrix, which is essentially a spreadsheet of all of our testing. So it lists every phone that we’ve tested. You know, it’s not just manufacturer. We have to test each manufacturers individual fault, low density items, whether it’s close or open source all. We test each and every one of those assemblies. We list the thickness of the fallen that can be installed. We list the thickness of the coating that has to be applied over it. And then we list the third army evaluation reports for both our coding and the fall all on that table. So it’s a very easy spot to go in. The code official wants to verify that it meets and they can go find spraying Carlile’s single type prop.

Paint to Protect:
And I put on their hot link to their site. Right now you go to our competition.

Paint to Protect:
We link directly to sites. So if any. Anyone listening to us today, if they want us to create a custom matrix for them or their Web site for their salespeople. OK. Don’t. Again, don’t trust me. OK. We asked people a group is in the testing. Go to the source. It’s easy. It’s one click away. OK. If they can’t give you a document that they can click into the NFPA and say that they’re certified to do this or, you know, it, it it’s it’s obvious that unfortunately, because of the virus not only having to be haunting home, but we were just starting with Idei and all kidding aside, and yet all the I.B. eyes this this year.

Paint to Protect:
Ok. Frank was the first one and we were going to be answering that question was our whole purpose of being out. And again, we had thousands and thousands of fire contra fire chiefs and fire engineers and building inspectors who wanted to come in and answer that question, because that question is why the codebooks have changed so much in the last couple of years trying to make it easier for the contractor. So if I was the sum that in a simple response, there’d be pick up the phone.

Don Clymer:
Do that, Gary. You can’t make it simple.

Paint to Protect:
Pick got the phone call the manufacturer. OK. And ask the tough questions, which you can resupply on our website, you know, with a report that was done by Jensen use that clearly states. Here is why if you don’t know his ISP, IDC fifteen largest fire consulting company in the world, the most prestigious or true, the Fortune 100 companies will be represented by eye to eye in court because you’re in violation of the rules. It’s a tough thing to answer, but just stick to the obvious for me. Instinctively know when someone’s lying to you.

Don Clymer:
So we’ve talked a little bit about the codes and kind of what to look for, what sets it apart. How about the application? You guys you guys do still have the certified applicator training?

Paint to Protect:
Absolutely. It’s a national problem. Nick, you want to talk about that a little bit? Yeah, it’s it’s a great cause that we designed specifically to go over the proper installation and documentation on new projects when you’re using these things, 315. I mean, what it does is it separates you from other contractors when you’re going into a project and when you’re looking to get a pass from a code official. It just shows the documentation that you’ve Gunar undergone, the training and the proper procedures when applying the product. And the best recommendation I get phone calls all on it all the time is they provide the documentation in your bid package when you’re submitting your bids, especially for your combating with other contractors and you’re getting underbid when you’re supplying the documentation on the front side for these proposals. And you’re supplying all the documentation and the application procedures, evaluation reports, that code references it definitely separate you from any of the other contractors that are not providing the correct information or providing the information on thermal barriers and what the purposes and that complete documentation of it. And that’s why I’m really looking for.

Don Clymer:
What was that done? What is it required by you guys to take that course?

Paint to Protect:
Well, no, we strongly recommend that we can’t get into the building, go to a club. OK, but we have thousands of applicators in. Let me let me answer. You know, tie all this together and a quick look with what we call certify the applicator program or TARP number one in Canada.

Paint to Protect:
You can’t use a coating without taking our test. It is in their coats. OK. So the United States is looking at that going. How did you guys get this in the coat? Pretty easy. The proof is in the testing. OK. And then we again sat down. Yeah, it’s a federal bureau up there and said, OK, I’m going to tell you something. And then a piece paper up third party and show you that when I’m coming through. OK. Just ask other people to do that. Number two, OK. The certified out here gets the job. I don’t care if your more money OK or not.

Paint to Protect:
And we know a little bit about fire and fire testing. I mean, we’ve done over the world have spent tens of millions of dollars doing testing. OK. And fire. And if your kid’s life, there’s only worth ten dollars a gallon. I think you should probably get divorced. All right. Because guys don’t have kids. You’re obviously not putting much respect with number three. The certified applicator is the one who gets the job approved without an audit. Ask ask the competitors how many times stretching East Coast that the building inspector demands a third party inspection because he doesn’t trust your documentation. That’s why, again, 25 percent of our work is remediation jobs done by competitors hurt.

Paint to Protect:
It hurts when an idei contractor calls us or anybody, you know, even hurts from the competition causes that we got caught, you know, and then they want us to break the law. That’s how messed up it is. They want us to falsify documents to allow them to stay there. OK. And then lastly, OK. And maybe the most importantly, the reason you’re spending ten dollars trying to less a gallon on an untested product, thinking you’re saving money is all the wrong reasons. And you invest 20 minutes to our online certified application program. You will be smart and smart means bids, not price.

Travis Pankake:
Well, it kind of tag teams with everything that we push, which is training, training and more training, you know, the better.

Paint to Protect:
Not a good job. I got you guys.

Travis Pankake:
So just to kind of do kind of follow up on my next question is, you know, we’ve talked about the product. We talked about the testing. We’ve talked about the certified applicator. What what would you say is a preferred or recommended equipment package to you to apply your product?

Paint to Protect:
I’m going to handle that one.

Paint to Protect:
All right. You know, Analysts Frey, obviously, you can you know, you can use brush or roll or any standard painting methods to do it.

Paint to Protect:
But an airless spray packages is really the ultimate setup to have for applying the coating. It’s fast, efficient. You know, you’re going to have a better still evenness over it, using using a spray that, you know, the product itself is designed to be applied in one coat. To do that, you obviously have to be a little bit heavier body than, you know, some of the traditional house paints. You got to get, you know, still build on there. And we keep labor might. I don’t want to have a guy going in. I want to do two, three coats to get the fill build up. We go with one coats there in Baghdad, often one coat, and they can move on to the next project. So to do that, you’re going to be a little bit of a, you know, a little bit bigger sprayer than than maybe the general I was once would. So a great co, you know, seven ninety five would kind of be a minimum size for guys that are just using it on a periodic, you know, case by case, maybe to get some small base to project something like that. The break was seven ninety five. So an ideal size for that. Tip sizes would be five. Seventeen to five. Ninety on a tip size.

Paint to Protect:
If you’re into something that’s a little more, you know, higher volume usage. So you’re doing some large Quonset hut buildings, parking garages. You get up in that 10, 20 thousand square foot area. You’re going to want to step up into a minimum of ten ninety five size, if not even at 50. Ninety five for a mark for those ones are just designed for your body. Products like ours are able to push efficiently without burning out your motors on your equipment so you can downsize a skill for a cheaper unit. But if you get into high volume work, you’re just get through the machine because it’s going to be just struggling to keep up with you on it day by day. And there was, you know, obviously with the bigger machine, you’d go to a little bit bigger tip. We always caution you guys don’t go too big. You know, usually the the one of the main issues we actually see in the field is guys over apply our products. That’s usually because they’re worried about a cold official coming in because they have nothing. You know, that then goes back even further to a certified applicator program which had a document. He’s got it now. I was just going to ask. So up there.

Don Clymer:
How do you how do you help stop the guys from applying too much?

Paint to Protect:
Like all the documentation of forms to lead lead where you sign off to give to the inspector who comes in paying tags by the by the electric panel.

Don Clymer:
Ok. What do you mean hanging tags?

Paint to Protect:
And labels. Labels that you can use labels.

Paint to Protect:
A contractor comes out or excuse me, a code official comes in. You know, they’ve been doing this a long time. I mean, these guys are older Meudon and they come in there and they they know if someone puts foot. Well, I mean, this isn’t this isn’t rocket science. OK. If you look at your chips, those are you love kids and you see the work that they did on a project, you know, they deserve an A by the effort they’ve put out. And you know that they actually get it. Don’t wait till the last minute. Just copy, you know, a Google search so that if you put this frontside effort, you don’t have a presentation that we did BSD, a show on sort of by the computers. And it talks about this whole thing. The proof is in the testing. And then we expand. The proof is also new. OK. You’re afraid that somebody is three hundred dollars cheaper than you because of the coding. You’re probably in the wrong industry. OK. Because you don’t understand that they’re coding saving money when you apply it. OK. With with the results. And again, I’m sure that all the people listening this call today, OK, understand that the code official comes in, goes, oh, you use DC 350 rubber stamp. Where’s your certified applicator? Why don’t we have one? Well, you better get one then I’ll sign off on the job.

Paint to Protect:
So it all ties back. Is this ongoing thing about the proof is in the testing and the proof is in. The efforts at Euclidian to do a good job.

Paint to Protect:
And that documentation is key in a building inspector walks into a job site. What’s he looking at? He looks at the wall and he sees white paint. You know, let me see it.

Paint to Protect:
It’s not a it’s not factory fabricated product that has certification labels, has all this information on it. It’s white paint, you know. So he walks into a job. How is he to know what’s been done, how thick, which product you all of those questions are going to be tested. So you’re a certified applicator. You’ve got your certificate. You’ve got the documentation. You’ve got your proof of applied sickness on the coat. You’ve got to label up on the job site says this is who I am and this is the product based all call me with questions that Specter’s going to walk in there. And now he knows. He knows what’s been done. The paperwork is there. The documentation is there. So he’s able to connect his dots. We need the guy to have the support when they file a you know, a building is as the inspection. They’ve got to have the documentation to support why they’re sharing the project. And so having all those things together to run, Inspector walks in and he’s just going, wow, you know, these guys got it dialed in. They’re doing it right. You’re going to save yourself way more grief. And in particular, you’re gonna get paid faster. This is projects kind of get past the inspectors. If they run into that homeowner and say, hey, look, these guys really did a good job on your home. What do you think’s going to get paid first? Yeah, those guys, you know, the inspector says, I got it. You guys suck. You know, they didn’t do this, right. I don’t know what they’ve done here. What’s that going to do to your customer? Is he trying to put doubt in their mind right away and all of a sudden you’re going to be on the bottom and the person is going to get paid for that project because they’ve lost that confidence and, you know, comfort level with you at that point.

Paint to Protect:
So it all ties back into profitability for the contractors. Well, we’re always after, you know, how do you how do you make money? How do you be profitable? How do you get paid fast? How do you do it? Right. And do while you’re doing that, you’re going to be more expensive than the guys that are including Koby’s in the first place. So don’t don’t. Don’t be scared. You know, don’t be worried that my bid’s going to come in higher. Highlight that fact. Why is it higher? Because I care. You know, this is life safety. This is fire. I’m not going to go in and say, well, I told you that this may catch on fire. It might be a hazard. You’re aware of it. So I’m going to leave now and say, you know, you should maybe do something with that. And that happens all the time. These guys just want to go and spray your foam walkway and say that they’ve had a homeowner sign off on on that day. They’re aware that it should be protected. Right. So highlighting that, putting it up front, you know, using your certified applicator, I’m certified for this. I make sure I follow the codes. I make sure I only use to plant products. Yes, I might be a couple hundred dollars higher than the next person. But your house is going to be safe. It’s going to be done, right. It’s going to be compliant. It’s going to pass the pass inspection. You’re not too late. So it sounds like a no brainer.

Travis Pankake:
Seems like if I’m a contractor and I’m building some of these jobs and it’s not D.C. 315, I might as well hang on to that job because I’m going to get a callback anyway, so. Well, right.

Paint to Protect:
Right. The thing is, you know, you have your own house. It lets you talk about outside BP. OK. So some company comes over who says, hey, there are three thousand dollars. You feed your house. Everyone else is forty five hundred five thousand. You know, there are certain people are going to take the three thousand is going to look like that. You know, they fail to mention that to be true.

Paint to Protect:
Your plants, your box, your car windows, your dog, your kids. OK. What do you mean? For example, windows. But there were three thousand dollars. OK. So when a company you don’t want to putting foam up on job is not an expense. Ok. A couple hundred dollars and an Ivy Anglo’s is more meeting other customer. We have hundreds if that’s basker to make or break some of these jobs. You know, we’re better in the wrong profession because we actively market when we go out the door and say just so there’s no confusion. We’re the most expensive coding in the market today. Now, you notice that I didn’t pull up in a Testarossa like GONN does, OK. Know I called you back. It’s a for me, Gary. I’m not making 500 percent margin and we’re making pure private. And here’s our testing, you know. I’m going to harp on it just a little bit. One more thing is that I talk about proof is in the test, Travis. Right. And I want you to get your arms around that. You find the number contin, this one. Thirty thousand dollars proving what Brad just said by giving third party independent testing and spring over here, putting a drip cost of running time-lapse photography with Black Falcon. OK. We’re one coat. What’s called variable viscosity. I’m going to get into that for another day. We are thicker. We force you to spend a little bit more money on a better sprayer on the front side. Now. Let’s just talk about intelligence. If you can’t figure out, opined one CO at 14 males, OK, is cheaper than buying two coats at seven mills each. Then you’re in the wrong business. Oh, hey, you’re just wrong. Visiting explains why you lose jobs. So you said professional resume under Frontside to be able to bring that package in to show that person. Why do people say, well, I don’t want to spend that money on a coating in my house because you have shown me anything? You’re they’re more worried about having to spend an extra couple thousand dollars to put a coating on things to wash the decision for your customer that you’re trying to do going in and say, I don’t want to include this because I mean it with a bit. You’ve made that decision for your customer. All right. So instead of picking up the competitors, being from that person. Well, how could they be that much cheaper? Oh, I see. They didn’t tell you about life safety. I mean, and just say, look, I’m not going to spray your job if that’s the way you want to go on this. I’m not going to be responsible. What’s going to happen in your home, right in your home or whatever, you know, got to play that the right way. But you just a little bit of follow up on that.

Don Clymer:
So in theory, you know, we’ve covered D.C. 315. Before we wrap up, let’s talk a little bit about the D.C. 360. You guys mentioned in the beginning, just a quick rundown on that.

Paint to Protect:
Well, 360 is a new product for wood in gypsum. And the big thing on it, you know, we’re just finishing up. Currently, it’s an inexpensive product, much cheaper. I’ll get back to cheapest in the market that we know that’s a good thing. OK. Secondly, it’s industry leading spread rates for the class, a commercial work. You know, there’s there’s a virus going around. I don’t know if you guys know about it. Well, here you go. And in what’s happening out there is there’s this guy named Donald Trump. He’s a president who was. OK. And he’s. And he’s approved. Approving. Yeah. Two point four billion dollars in infrastructure, Bill. So you guys can put up more home than you’ve ever dreamed in your life. Going to be a car or requirements. And one of those requirements is going to be life safety over what during construction? Lot of residential, commercial, lot of wood, lot of wouldn’t love wood. OK. And again, we get jobs on that. It’s not rare for us to get an order for five hundred thousand fifteen hundred gallons per job. But they have a job starting every week. So it’s huge usage. OK. It’s extremely easy to apply that when you can’t apply the loan sprayer. Travis, you want to add some?

Travis Pankake:
Yeah, I just wanted to basically just kind of step back. So you’re saying the D.C. 360 is basically framing stage in a in a house?

Paint to Protect:
Yeah. Framing stage in them. And then it’s just it all the way up. One of the things is happening as fire codes change, show up to us. I was talking about, like, you know, the NFPA one or one like safety codes, which is a false stuff. So a building sells out in your mind. Iowa, you know, commercial townhouses or something. And when they built those back in the 80s, they only needed a 30 minute separation between units. Now they need an hour. Now you have a choice. Travis, you can pull all of gypsum off, move all the electrical outlets, all the light switches, and redo it with firebase and gypsum, you know, two sheets. You can get your your rating right. Or you could do theses 360 on, you know, at a cost of a very cheap. Okay. Just great it down over the top your inside color and you’re gonna meet the codes. Sorry.

Paint to Protect:
You get to market and retrofit and new construction. So retrofit especially is a big one for it where you’ve got these changed uses, you know, residential and retail, residential, commercial, you know, first floor. You have to have an early separation between them. A lot of it is is rehab ecoles or buildings or repurposing buildings re gentrification of different areas. Well, how do you get those fire readings at some of these archaic building materials that have been used? Well, now I said about a rip it all off and replace it. You can actually go in with a coating and get the fire resistance rating up on those coatings. What about on those products?

Don Clymer:
What about on new construction where they don’t finish the basement?

Paint to Protect:
Not as much in the residential basement side, but but new construction, multifamily wood frame. So that’s four story, six story and under would free multi. A lot of those buildings. There would obviously, for one, they still have to have fire rating, you know, because you’ve got multiple families in their single family usually don’t have so much fire rating. It’s just you get so screwed up. It’s you know, it’s multi unit design. Hey, if I mess up in my unit, it’s not going to get over for over time. So ax basis, you know, ADIC fires are one of the worst, most susceptible areas, really, buildings. You see that particular in California with wildfires going up attacks. So they now require spray for protection of an addict. Well, if you’re in an area where you’ve got subfreezing temperatures, you’ve now got this, you know, an added cost of having the sprinkler system put in. You have to freeze, protect. You have to do all these things. There’s a big cost to it. You can go in and put D.C. 360 up over all the wood in that attic. And you could qualify this exemption for not requiring the sprinkler. So it’s almost relative to a sprinkler, so. Exactly. You can use it as an alternative. I mean, that’s where our biggest usage when you get these thousand gallon orders going out to multi unit building developers looking at that saying, hey, I can save, you know, 50 grand not having to put in the sprinkler system. And I’m going to put in, you know, just pick a number, say 20 grand and put it going up like a no brainer. You know, I’m going to go after that. And I don’t think in the end, sprinklers or sprinklers are a good addition to fire safety. They should not be the only option or the only option for fire safety. You want to look at what can I do to stop the fire from starting? What can I do to stop it from spreading? So you never get to the point where sprinklers wouldn’t be needed. Right. That’s really where we try to fit in, is what can we do to reduce the potential of a fire, reduce the impact of that fire, allow people to get out in a timely manner. There is a fire in it, obviously reduce the damage to the building. So you’re retrofit workers. Less.

Paint to Protect:
What’s the last thing that Brad says is really important done yet? Answer that question. Or maybe it was Travis, a new construction. You know, you drive down the road and you’re look around, you see these new wood construction condominiums and strip malls and stuff. And then the construction stage there is if you go to a bidding system, you’ll see it there for what’s called class A coating again, which is basically one of the things we know with 360. And they want every piece of wood treated during building because they don’t want to burn. Now, how many times have you heard of somebody welding and you take down a whole building? What is a very inexpensive way for them to get through that? The framing section.

Don Clymer:
Sounds like we have to do another podcast’s just on 360 has just been set up. Well, I think we covered a lot today. Guys. That was good. It was very informative. I think I think the proof is in the testing.

Travis Pankake:
He said that podcast Gasolines asked me when you came to work for your. Well, you learn how you earn learn that line.

Paint to Protect:
You learn how to get the attention of homeowners. And again, we tell people in your cap room that, you know, and lead up lead with that resume testing. Yeah. Now go under with a formerly has no certifications. No far. Yeah. So why should the coding. Nobody’s ever died from an hour. Twenty six. Understand why. 30. Right. Put the wrong coding up and it’s a bad situation not only for you. Right. Guy in the phone industry. Oh that’s not what we spend so much time and.

Don Clymer:
Right. Well, guys, thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Appreciate you taking the time.

Paint to Protect:
Thank you. Thanks for having us on.

Paint to Protect:
Thank you, guy. Well, wash your hands, please.

Paint to Protect:
Feel free to say. Don’t ever hesitate to call us because we will take your call and we will assist you in getting work.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. And go to. Yeah. Rita.

Paint to Protect:
That’s right. And all the documentation, information that we talked about is all on paid to protect PACOM. So feel free to check it out.

Paint to Protect:
Certified applicator printing program, the job work records, job site labels, the testing matrix. It’s probably the most user-friendly tool. We’re just a couple clicks on the button. You can download all the spread reads, cover dreams, evaluation reports, e-mail it to quote official customer in just a few seconds.

So and you can do it all just from that testing matrix. Awesome. All right. Thanks again. Thanks for having us. Thanks, guys. Guys.

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EPISODE 10

Questions to Ask Your Insurance Provider Today with SPF Insurance Group

When a small business starts to grow, they soon realize how much comes along with that growth. The intricacies of hiring, benefits, workers comp, payroll and so much more can be overwhelming.

May 2020  | 58:02

Have you properly protected your equipment and your business with the right insurance coverage? Not having the right coverage on your spray foam rig could set your business back or even end it.

Join Travis, Don and Aaron as they discuss the myriad of options and benefits of insuring your spray foam rig and your business with Craig and Kirk Campbell of SPF Insurance Group.

SPF has been helping people get insurance in one form or another for over 103 years. Craig and Kirk’s in-depth knowledge and experience in the industry, allows them to provide the exact coverage their clients need. There are so many types of policies that many people don’t even know about, or why they should have them. Coverage for trailers vs. commercial auto, trailer contents, chemicals, over-spray, harmful odor, injury, the list goes on.

You don’t have to be in the dark about insurance and you can protect your business from the worst case scenario.

8:02 – The transition to SPF insurance

9:51 – Proving the safety of your product

12:34 – The questions you need to ask your insurance provider today

13:51 – Inland Marine Coverage – why you need it

26:01 – General liability and over-spray

28:53 – What’s that smell?

44:04 – Experience = best coverage for the price

51:45 – When lightning strikes

Season 1, Episode 10 Transcript

RVAL005 SPF.mp3 transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

RVAL005 SPF.mp3 was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best audio automated transcription service in 2020. Our automated transcription algorithms works with many of the popular audio file formats.

Lightning shone right through the top of the roads into the air. Well, the foam kept the house from burning down.

Travis Pankake:
Add that to the things that is great about spray foam. It’s lightning proof.

Various:
This is the one and only the original podcasts where you can find yours and your business’s true value. You’re listening to our value brought to you by America’s insulation source, Idei Distributors. You want to hear from the best contractors, suppliers and consultants that dedicate themselves to more than just survival in the business world. Industry professionals that are dedicated to excellence in every aspect of their business. Our value has them all here to share that same motivation and knowledge with you. Tune in and grow more successful, profitable, educated and recognized business. Listen to the hour value podcast to become the industry leader in your market. Find your value with our value.

Travis Pankake:
Hello and welcome back to our value brought to you by Idea Distributors. This is the Insulators podcast. We’ll bring you industry experts and building science, fiberglass spray, foam, spray foam equipment industry, business and marketing leaders as well as many others. So sit back, relax, take some notes. You’re listening to our value.

Travis Pankake:
I’m Travis pancake sales and training here at Idei alongside my co-host, Don Climber, national spray foam manager, and Aaron Francene, spray foam tech manager, as well as equipment manager. And all things considered, fellas, are we doing well?

Don Clymer:
Yeah, we’re hanging in there with this crazy time where we’re going through right now and every single one of us is remote. That’s a first for this podcast. Not one of us is sitting. Well, the Campbells are. And we’ll get to those guys. But as far as the Idei host goes, this is a first for us all being remote, being quarantined.

Travis Pankake:
It’s a little different sitting in this podcast booth all by myself, usually thrilled by this. Yeah. Yeah, I bet. Lonely. So lonely in many ways.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. Crazy times. Quarantine people stocking up.

Don Clymer:
But we’ll get through it just like we always have. It’s a you know, not to get to. Sentimental or crazy or whatever, but it’s a great nation, we’ve come through a lot worse and will. We’ll get through this. It’s just time to sit home, clean the house, maybe drink a few beers and have mom get a glass of wine and everybody relax. We’re maintaining. Yeah. So, hey, listeners, today we have Craig and Kurt Campbell on the show.

Don Clymer:
Some of you may know them. They’re with the SBF insurance group, which started out one hundred and three years ago as Campbell Insurance Agency from their grandfather. This is the third hundred plus year customer or guest we’ve had on the show is Bullard Dero 100 years, Kimura’s, they were over 100 years. But these guys started talking insurance at the dinner table. Their grandfather, like I said, John Roy Campbell, started the business in 1916. Their father, John Ogden Campbell, took over. And now Craig and Kirk are running the business and maybe with seven children between the two of them. The legacy will continue on. Well, we’ll find out. These guys are members of our industry association ACA, as well as independent insurance agents of America and Professional Insert Insurance Agents Association when they are coaching Little League and giving back to the community in which they live, they are living their company’s core value of serving the customer first. SBF insurance group has been insuring SPF contractors since 1993 from requesting a code on general liability, commercial auto or worker’s compensation to a customer package that fits all your needs. SPF Insurance Group is your one stop shop for all things insurance related. Now, this might sound like a commercial, but I think it’s one of the things that that our contractors overlook a little bit and they don’t make sure they’re completely covered. And I can I can speak full heartedly to that.

Don Clymer:
Not to the contracting side of it. But so we just we moved into a new house in October and you change all the insurance and everything. And I forgot to insure my wife’s wedding ring. And she came to me and said, my diamonds gone and we tore this house upside down. Now, keep in mind, we just moved in. Brand new house, new construction. We to upside down. We’d been in it, I think, eleven days from the time she lost her diamond. And here’s the crazy thing is, you know, I kick myself. I forgot to call my insurance agency. You get the new policy on all that ancillary stuff, the stuff you forget. Right. And we went to we went as far as sweeping the garage, putting it through a calendar or a sifter, not finding anything. She took everything out of the fridge because she went got groceries. She she’s putting stuff in there that maybe it’s in there. Right. I pulled the fridge out after she did that. And nothing behind it. Nothing underneath it swept the garage again. It’s gone. My insurance I called my insurance guy and he’s like, hey, sorry, but you kind of screwed.

Don Clymer:
Not sure what to tell ya. Here’s fifteen hundred bucks. Literally three days later, we drove in the garage, brought in more boxes and all that stuff. She comes and grabs me and she says, come here and look at this. And I walk outside and literally two feet in front of the front of the refrigerator that she had cleaned out. I had swept in front of twice, sifted everything. Her diamond was smack dab in the middle of the floor, just sparkling right there. It’s the craziest thing, but it just it kinda is. It’s a good Segway, too, to, like, realize you don’t want always you’re not always covered with what you think you are. So that’s why we have these guys on the show today. I’ve known him for a while. Ben referring customers to him for a while, seeing them at shows. And we want to talk talk to these guys a little bit about, you know, making sure everybody is insured going forward. And sorry, we’ll just edit this part out.

Don Clymer:
But as you can see in the court, Jean and pops the kids, you can only give so much instruction. Hey, listen, listen.

SPF Insurance:
Savannah Guthrie this morning, speaking of makeshifts. She was set up in her basement on The Today Show because she does. SNIVELS and her husband set up a little studio this morning at 3:00 a.m. and they duct taped the door and she said it on last TV.

SPF Insurance:
So we have duct tape the kids out of the basement with the duct tape to keep them out so they can do it. You can do it. Don, you got any duct tape?

Don Clymer:
Hey, I’ll find some that zip ties. I mean, we’re even pains for kids that cry works a little better.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. I’m not sure what part of stay out of the frickin basement for the next hour is hard to understand. But, hey, we’ll just roll with it, right? I mean, that’s what makes it good. Don’t hit the red button. This is live TV, baby. Yeah. Elliot, lighten the mood. Well, we might as well just jump right into it with you guys. So, you know, introducing Craig and Kurt Campbell, SBF insurance group.

Don Clymer:
The guys who. Todd. Jake from State Farm. Everything he knows. Guys, welcome to the show. You bet. We appreciate it on. No problem. No problem. So. So you guys started out. It’s a hundred and three year old company. Your grandfather started it. How? How did you guys transition into the SBF insurance group? I mean, how did you guys see a niche? There was. Were you guys getting calls from contractors in that area? Give us a little little background on how it started.

SPF Insurance:
Well, it started with a gentleman that you and I both know by name of day. Final note. And Dave actually had a company here. He was on his way to Euston, Texas, to start his SBF company. And like most people, he drove through the beautiful Ozark Mountains, which is where we live, and fell in love and found out that he could buy Euge Farm for almost pennies on the dollar. And so he did the ad and then he started his first company, which was called Ozark Home in Sale Lighter’s. And he actually obviously came down to the office. And this is the fastest kirchen I’ve ever seen of anything. And he was explaining to us what he had on there. Forget it, sitting there and talking about the trailer and talking about the equipment and this sort of thing. And then he said, positive. Well, Dave, what else do you have in that trailer? He said, well, I’ve got guns and I’m thinking guns, OK? I’m really focusing in trying to listen to him and focus. But the whole time mind mine, I’m thinking this guy’s going around to people’s houses and he’s got guns with them. I’m not sure exactly what he’s doing. So that was literally the learning curve that I know we as agents have learned.

SPF Insurance:
And we feel very experienced because of that, because, believe it or not, they are agents that if you call them up and said, hey, I’m a I’m an SBF contractor and. Well, how do you do that? Well, I do it with a gun. You know, I’ll say you guys are going to be the same as us. And I’ll know what’s going on. But we were very lucky to to have Dave come here. And so we started obviously research the market research and the insurance carriers. And the biggest thing for us was that Erkan I literally made personal visits to our insurance companies and actually took a big piece of the phone with us and showed it to them. And, you know, you hand it to them, you know, they think they’re holding a diamond on back to back. You’re sure? And I thought, what is this? And also at the very end of the presentation, one of the things that we do this to make sure that these underwriters know that this is a pretty good, safe product, we actually take a piece of the foam and we put it in our mouth and we swallow and serious way seriously.

SPF Insurance:
Sure. It’s not a great big piece of this, but just enough to.

SPF Insurance:
So the underwriters look at us and go, oh, those guys are going to eat it. I guess it’s OK. So, yeah.

SPF Insurance:
Mean, I let Craig do that first. I call it the second. Yeah. Wait 30 second out.

SPF Insurance:
So that that was kind of the, you know, the end of our dog and pony show. But since then, since the early 90s, we’ve grown up with the industry. We started off, as you and I both know, with just a couple of manufacturers of the foam itself. And now what do we have? Well over 30. Yeah, yeah. So we’ve learned a lot. You know, we know what’s in the ice side. We know what’s in the bay side. But the best thing is that we know how to insure the risk because we know the risk. So we know exactly what you’re doing. We know that the equipment in the back of your trailer and off they replace it. Home Depot tomorrow. So we put special provisions in our policies to make sure that we have you covered properly so that if you do have a claim, you’re not kind of doing what happened to you, Don.

SPF Insurance:
And thank God that I called me and that I call you. Right. So we ask a lot of questions to our insurance, to the SBF contractors that no other agent even knows to ask. And you guys cover nationwide. We do nationwide. Now, the only two states on that the program is not in is New York and Arizona. And unfortunately, you know, the litigious environment in those two states is just very difficult for insurance companies. And not that you can’t get insurance in New York or misunderstand me, that’s not what I’m saying. But what I’m saying is that companies historically won’t do a special program in certain states. So they only two that were not in our New York and Arizona.

Don Clymer:
Ok. So couple of questions just based off a. That that last a minute and a half. I’d like to make it into a two part, but I don’t know if I’m that eloquent on the microphone yet. So when we have like Aaron Aaron said earlier, we’ve sold 30 rigs so far through the year. If if our guys are in New York and Arizona and they can’t get insurance through spray foam insurance group, what questions should they be asking their normal provider to make sure at least they have the best coverage that they possibly could?

SPF Insurance:
Well, that’s a great question. And that’s where we see a lot of gaps in gray areas with folks as far as the trailers are concerned. So you kind of have to two entities there. You’ve got the trailer itself.

SPF Insurance:
Now, the the liability for any trailer follows the power unit that’s pulling in the truck. OK. So the liability is there is on that side of things. But on the physical damage of the trailer. Number one, you want to make sure that it’s on a commercial or a business auto policy. Number one, because a personal auto policy excludes business use. So you can get. You can get in. You can get some serious issues there if you’re pulling the trailer with a personal auto. Number two, the contents on the inside of the trailer. We have call after call after call. I’d say almost every call. Well, my contents are covered from my business building insurance or my contents or extended from my homeowners or they’re automatically covered from my business auto policy. That that is not correct. And it’s not. It is not. No, no. A business auto policy does not cover the contents of that trailer. And why is that? The reason is, is because an auto policy is not set up to cover items inside the unit because they could be obviously items for any type of business. And so those things have to be covered under what’s called healin Marine coverage in into Marine. It’s just an insurance term that we use for items that are mobile in nature. So Ilmari means that they are covered no matter where they are or at a job site, whether they are in the back of the trailer, no matter whether they’re going down the road. So Emlyn Marine is a very, very valuable coverage. That is an all risk coverage. But we we do a couple of things on the inland Marine schedule.

SPF Insurance:
Most pieces over, say, five thousand dollars. We can schedule any piece that they have. But typically what we do is we schedule the larger pieces with serial numbers and values specifically put in there a blanket amount or like, for instance, the miscellaneous equipments. They have five or 10 thousand dollar miscellaneous limit on the fresh air systems.

Don Clymer:
All or Iwai stations.

SPF Insurance:
I mean, G&A picks up the parts for the guns and that kind of thing. And another real reason why we schedule things and we say schedule that, that means if we literally list it on the insurance policy like that. Right. Right. So if you’re so if you’re running a Grecco eight, 30, I then we want to make sure that the insurance carrier and this is the question for what what you brought up a while ago, thought of what the person wants to ask their agent. And that is, are you going to offer me an AMA Marine policy that schedules my equipment and by scheduling it literally listed on the policy will say not 2015. Grecco 830. I value twenty five miles. The reason that you absolutely need to do that in our industry is because if you don’t schedule it, if you put it on a blanket limit or you put it on a blank in the mount, the insurance company has the right to go out to Craig’s List to go after anything on the Internet, find that same piece of equipment that somebody is trying to dump out in the market and they use it as the value to indemnify you, really, if you don’t have a schedule that can happen to you.

SPF Insurance:
And those are the horror calls that Kirk and I get from people who are with agents that unfortunately do not know what’s in the back of that trailer. And they do assign an amount to it. So in other words, I’ll ask the SBF contractor what he got back there. Well, I got about fifty thousand. OK, well, we’ll put 50 on there. Well, then they put 50 on there. Then they have a fire and then they go out and find a, you know, a breakaway 30A that’s used or whatever and say, well, looks like I can get you a good one out there on Craigslist for ten thousand dollars. You’re kidding. That’s how that works. That’s how it works. So that’s the reason why you want to schedule it so that the company has to put you back in the same position you were in before you had the. So that’s why we schedule, you know, the equipment and like Kirk said, we always put an amount for miscellaneous in another area where all agents miss out, because I can say they don’t know what’s in the back of the trailer. Our miscellaneous form insurance also covers the chemical.

Travis Pankake:
I was gonna go there next. I’m glad you brought that up.

Don Clymer:
So chemical obviously is not equipment. So in the proper form of insurance for Antal Marine, it obviously says we cover your equipment and miscellaneous tools that go with. Well, that’s obviously not chemical. So we have learned over the years we’ve got to get some coverage for that. So we build in enough coverage in in our policy to cover at least two sets of Kim. That’s obviously very important. The other important thing is that person was, we said, a miscellaneous limit of about five to ten thousand, depending on how many rigs you have. That’s what picks up everything else that picks up everything from your parts to your guns to the scaffolding to ladder to whatever you have in the back of that trailer by doing it on a blanket limit miscellaneous. We don’t have to tell the insurance company. So old enough in there for that, just to summarize kind of what you’re saying.

Aaron Franzine:
A truck and a trailer should be on a commercial auto policy. The contents or the property I looked up. Inland Marine. It’s described property insurance for property in transit. So that would be this basically. Can we call inland Marine like the serialized items within a rig that we can schedule? And then in addition, we have a ten thousand dollar miscellaneous. That would cover up to two sets. And then all the ancillary things, Interreg, that I summarize that right for our listeners.

SPF Insurance:
Yes, you did. OK. It’s a very, very, very good analogy. Yeah, that’s exactly what it is. Now, also something that we’ve built into our policy here, again, from our experience, is one of the busiest exposures that people have. Obviously, with the chemical in the back of the truck is pollution. So you roll that trailer and you spill that chemical out on the ground. You’re on a federal highway. They’re not gonna let you clean that up. You’re gonna have to call a special hazmat company to come out, clean it up for you. So we’ve built into our policy. Twenty five thousand dollars of pollution cleanup in order to do that. And I know Don and I were the years if you’ve heard of horror stories like that, we quite frankly, haven’t had a claim. But that coverage is there and is built into every policy that we have. That’s another question I’ll promise you that no other agent even knows to ask. All right. Well, I think that’s very important. And then another important cover is that we do is we all understand that businesses and that sort of thing in order for them to survive after you have a claim that most businesses carry what’s called business income or loss of income. So if I I had a problem where the warehouse was shut down and you can’t do anything. So you had a fire or something, that nature. It’s the same steps in and pays for the loss of loss of income that you would have realized if the fire hadn’t happened.

SPF Insurance:
So we have built and our policy was called rental reimbursement. Twenty thousand dollars of coverage for you. If you roll your trailer or catches on fire or whatever happens to it, you’ve got enough money to go out to a rental company like maybe IDBI you guys gussin you should try it or hanging around or whatever to rent a try. Because we all know they can go to Home Depot the next day and get one. Plus we’ve also found and the biggest thing that it helps and we’ve had many, many clients try to stress fires. And Roland, we’ve had lots of those. But what we found is that having that coverage in there, obviously, we thought was a great thing. So you go out and rent the trailer, but it also gives the contractor time to catch his breath and to get with find companies like IDEO and design that new trial instead of having to call the next day and say, man, just give me water. You can’t throw it together and get it down here because the loss of income, as you know when your business is, is you, not me. I’ll show up to that job. And so that’s the reason why we have that built into our policy. And I’ll promise you. Border agents don’t know I don’t know the the importance of that equipment in the back of the trailer and how it all works together in unison. Therefore, they think, well, when go to Home Depot tomorrow and get what we need.

Aaron Franzine:
A quick question. So as far as loss of income, is that related or unrelated to equipment breakdown insurance or do you guys offer anything like that? You know, a lot of the calls we get is something similar down the road. A piece of equipment may fail. And, you know, they want to know how to handle that equipment failure or equipment breakdown insurance. Have you guys ever felt or heard of such a thing?

SPF Insurance:
In this particular instance, no, not not not equipment breakdown, per say. There are some there are some package policies for smaller, different type of non contracting type businesses that do have some equipment breakdown. Kind of what we were referring to was the loss of use of mainly the trailer, kind of a rental reimbursement loss of used to where we’re going to get you, allow you to get a trailer so you don’t lose that in their equipment breakdown.

SPF Insurance:
Coverage in our industry is just it’s it’s tricky. And there’s there’s. It’s a lot of people misconstrue it as a warranty type insurance, and it’s not that.

SPF Insurance:
So it’s it’s it’s a little tricky and it’s more designed, guys, for like large equipment that would say, for instance, me inside a restaurant. OK, let’s say you’ve got a giant grill or a giant cooling unit or something of that nature equipment right around it to really designed for stationary equipment, not really for mobile equipment. So the Marine policy that we offer covers what’s termed the special form of insurance. So in our industry, the term special means all damage from direct physical loss. So we don’t name the perils. We don’t say to you guys, we’re only coming here for colation, hail and fire. And that’s it. Ours is the broadest that’s out in the market and it’s all damaged from direct is a loss. So you say, well, what is that?

SPF Insurance:
Well, ciphering see, you laid the trailer at the job site. You come back the next day and the trailers turned over on the side, just laying around on the side. Well, if you didn’t have the best form of insurance, that probably wouldn’t be covered because we don’t have a a name panel policy that says we can fire hail, aviation explosion vehicle and somebody pushing your trailer over on its side. So I’m saying.

SPF Insurance:
So that’s why the term special and that’s why it’s the only forum insurance that we sell for these in-memory trailers, because crazy stuff happens as we know.

Aaron Franzine:
So we’ve got trailer kippin later.

Don Clymer:
You know, given the current circumstances, that that could be the most fun thing we do all week long. I’m.

Don Clymer:
I did see on your Web site. I think it’s stated that there’s an overspray coverage. That correct? I have, yeah. OK. Cause I’ll let you know, I guess. Stole my thunder done with it.

Travis Pankake:
You stole my thunder. That’s where I was going. That’s what this man is. Remember. Remember this. I didn’t see it. I’m sorry. It’s all right.

Don Clymer:
Go ahead. OK. Did you call me. Go ahead.

Travis Pankake:
Well, maybe no.

Don Clymer:
But that has got to be one of the most common questions we get asked is, hey, I overspray crowds, doors, windows, cars, you name it. I mean, we’ve heard it all. A cat. Yes. We’ve had a real thing, actually. We’ve had a cat. So explain a little bit of that, is that is that covered under that in England, Marine, or is that another special add on? How does that work?

SPF Insurance:
Well, that that is covered in your general liability policy, which is OK at this point we haven’t talked about. So part of your package policy would consist of general liability and general liability is a covers that protects you from the public. So it protects the F SBF contractor from any obviously overspray claims that they may have or anything of that nature. So with that in mind, that is where that is covered. And yes, we still have overspray. You know, we obviously had a lot more back in the early days between the 93 and, say, 2010. As we all know, the industry has done a tremendous job of educating SBF contractors on overspray, but it still happens. So we’re well aware of it. We also have a couple of contractors that we do business with that’s clean overspray and we have contacts and relationships with them. So when we do have those situations, you know, because Kirchen, I’ll be the one that gets the call from the person who just got overspray.

SPF Insurance:
And, of course, you know, if it’s a car, then they’re they’re telling us that, hey, you’re going to buy me a brand new car and I want to hear more. So we obviously talk him off the cliff and explained to him that it can be cleaned and that if we can’t get it clean, then we’ll do what we need to do to satisfy you. But give us a chance to clean it first. And if you’re satisfied, then everything’s good. What do you say, car? Ninety. Ninety five percent of all Scituate. Ninety five percent of them all work out just fine.

SPF Insurance:
Get calm down and know that we’re gonna take care of them. And again, these companies do a fantastic job, right?

Aaron Franzine:
We actually as a as a first level fans, we do carry a product. One of the GSP products for. Right. We say prickley for overspray. So you want to try to expand every resource, clean, clean or fixator or whatever. I’m hoping before we have to get an insurance company involved. So I just wanted to put that out there.

SPF Insurance:
You bet. Yeah. You bet. And you bet. Well, frankly, left. And if you can clean a factory done paint job versus having to repaint the car.

SPF Insurance:
If I’m a car owner, I would rather I’d much rather that than having to get my car completely repainted because in my opinion, there’s nothing like the clear, the clear cut, the factory done dump. So, yeah, most people, once they see how will these products do work, we just we rarely, if ever, have an issue.

Travis Pankake:
So we’ve covered the trailer. We’ve you know, we’ve covered the machine, the equipment, the product inside talked about overspray, how about about odors, odor issues at the job sites.

Don Clymer:
You stole my thunder, Travis. I was just going to ask.

SPF Insurance:
Well, you know, the odor situation guises is a real issue even for the whole insurance industry, because, you know, it’s really hard to really hard to put a claim on odor. So the only thing that would really protect you there is if that person can literally, physically, physiologically substantiate that the odor is causing physical problems to them. And as we all know, that’s that hasn’t been proved in any way, shape or form. So the our situation, as you know, has gotten so much better. And, of course, a lot of it has to do with the new equipment, the new technology. And of course, that alone has helped. And, of course, the training that everybody does, the CIA and NCSA and all the different groups that do the training. And I know you guys do it, too, as well, and they’ve done it forever and do a great job at it. You know, that has just come leaps and bounds on making sure that those odor situations don’t don’t occur very often.

Travis Pankake:
In fact, the one of our trainers that teaches on some of the classes, he says the only thing that gets an odor out of a house is a lawyer.

SPF Insurance:
And that’s got that’s got a lot of tricks.

Aaron Franzine:
Right. So so simply being annoying, that’s not an odor claim. It has to physically cause like a respiratory issue, a health hazard or something, but just not liking the smell. That’s not necessarily a claim. Is that right?

SPF Insurance:
Yeah. And you have to prove. Right. You’ve got to prove it. And it kind of gets back to, you know, insurance is designed to take care of, like Craig said, bodily injury and property damage that you’re legally liable for. But the odor situation can’t come back to both a a a product warranty type.

SPF Insurance:
Not necessarily a warranty, but but, you know, product malfunction, so to speak. That’s just a product. Both might not have worked correctly. Quite correctly.

SPF Insurance:
So that’s not necessarily an insurance time. Sure, yeah.

SPF Insurance:
And then also, guys, another good question for you. For four insurers, I ask and that’s really what what we want to talk about today. And we certainly appreciate you all having this on. And, you know, being able to to talk to some of your customers and that sort of thing. But the main thing we want everybody to get out of this is for all SPF contractors to ask the right questions when it comes to whoever their agent is. You know, we certainly know that that anybody would rather have local service if they could get it.

SPF Insurance:
And a lot SPF contractors do try to do business with their local agent, but their local agent, this doesn’t know the questions to ask. So one of the things that you’re going to want to ask when you purchase a general liability policy is in our industry, in the contracting industry, you have an endorsement called additional ensured endorsement. And that’s an endorsement that when you are a subcontract, you’re going to work for a general contractor. The general contractor, let’s say, is the one that’s building the home that he’s going to ask you for a copy of your insurance or a certificate of insurance. And he’s going to want to be named as what’s called an additional insured. And what that basically means is that your insurance is now reaching out and protecting the general contractor for anything that you as an SPF applicator may become legally liable for. Well, our additionally sure endorsement, and this is the question that you want your your customers to ask our insured endorsement issue with your endorsement is on a blanket basis. And what that means is that we get the certificate out. Additionally, you’re in endorsements all their blanket. It doesn’t matter how many certificates or how many Jeezy’s you work for in a year. We’re giving you that blanket, additional insured endorsement if you possibly don’t ask that question.

SPF Insurance:
And then you call into your agents, say, hey, I need to send the additional Chern endorsement to Don Clymer. He’s my general contractor. Then that insurance company is gonna say, you bet. We’ll be glad to do Atabay one hundred fifty dollars. So each time you add somebody it’s one hundred fifty dollars. So you may get a low premium upfront. You’re like, well that’s a pretty good premium. But then they ding you to death with the additional insured indorse. So that’s one thing that you want to ask. Number two, there’s also an endorsement called a waiver of subrogation. And a waiver of subrogation is a term that’s usually used with military top jobs or jobs for large, large corporations. I won’t go to the exact meaning of it, but that is an endorsement that’s also on our policy on a blanket basis. So last question number two, you want to make sure that your waiver of subrogation endorsement is on a blanket basis. Number three, you want to make sure that on your policy in contracting, insurance companies will offer you what’s called a per project. Aggregate and per project means that you’ve got three houses going on at one time or you’re spraying all three of your limit of insurance is one million dollars per occurrence.

SPF Insurance:
When you have a per project aggregate, that means you have a million dollars for each of those three homes, because as you know, in this industry, in a contract, the industry, you may have five or six jobs going on at one time. You’ve got a million dollars worth insurance, but you’ve got about four million dollars worth of work in front. So you want to make sure that your policy is written on a per project basis. And then last but not least, all the general contractors who have learned over the years from their insurance agents and that sort of thing. They also want your policy to be primary and non-contributory. What that means is that our policy for anything that we become legally liable for, we’re not going to reach up with that general contractor and say, hey, let’s pull your policy. So those general contractors have learned that over the years. And so they’re now requesting that endorsement on there as well. So all of those things that those aren’t on your policy as contracts continue to get more difficult and continue to get more in depth, you might get deigned to death by the insurance company by the time you get through an annual period.

Don Clymer:
So I apologize for that. My my computer just shut off. It just died. So I missed about two minutes of that. But we didn’t even notice, Don.

Travis Pankake:
I’m sure you didn’t mean that.

Don Clymer:
That’s a great thing about this whole working from home and trying to get everything set up remotely.

SPF Insurance:
But we thought you went to get a beer.

Don Clymer:
Oh, well, I might have had somebody bring me one in all series. It’s so far what we’ve heard is just a wealth of knowledge. Right. And it’s you know, I guess what I’m getting at is why would why would our contractors try to educate their their current insurance guy on all this stuff versus calling you guys? I mean, it just it makes sense. It sounds like you have everything wrapped up. You’ve been in it since ninety three. You you know, all the coverages our guys need. Is there a is there a difference of.

Don Clymer:
Coverages for a spray foam contractor versus just a fiberglass guys, you know, cause that that’s where I started was fiberglass. The majority are a vast majority of our customers are fiberglass. Do they need different coverages? Is that the same?

SPF Insurance:
Yes and no. Some of it some of it is similar. Some of it’s not. You know, back to your original questions of why we would want to, quote, try to train. Somebody else to learn the business, some other agent we know. Our main goal is to. No one help the customer first. Now, if we get it right, your business right. If we end up rotting their business, earning your business. If they are sold on on wanting to stay, quote, local, if you will, and their current agent can do the right coverage is can get them the right coverages and feels like they can do it adequately. We’re OK with that. We’re OK with that because we we just you know, we want them to know, hey, we’re going to we’ll be here. We hope we’re going to be here another hundred and three years. But most of the time, people appreciate that. We’re not we’re not hard core. Shove it down your throat top. Right. We’re in sales. Don’t get us wrong. That’s where we make our living. But, you know, we first want to show some folks that we’re here to service and. And then if we make a sale, that’s, you know, that’s great. We’re going to take care of the second part. There are some similarities between liability. But, guys, there are. 30 or 40 or 50, endorsements and endorsements are what change the policy.

SPF Insurance:
The instructor told me years ago, endorsements giveth, they taketh away. And you can’t it. They perplex us on some days of trying to understand what the policy does. There’s a basic policy is just like a regular Chevy car with a of real gas pedal. It doesn’t include all the bells and whistles. What it can do or what you know, what you can customize it to do.

SPF Insurance:
So anyway, there there are a lot of endorsements on these policies and you don’t understand them and go through know what your company, because insurance companies will put on endorsements. And not even tell us sometimes.

SPF Insurance:
And we have to go through every policy, even renewals, with a fine tooth comb to make sure that they haven’t put on an endorsement. And you would be surprised. And that’s one of the things Craig and I do, is when we talk to somebody new, we ask them to send us a copy of their policy of the entire policy, and we look the policy over. And I bet eight out of 10 times at least will we’ll pull the endorsement page. It will point out three or four major overflight exclusions. Yeah. Oh, really? Oh, you’re actually related to spray foam. And and they they didn’t have a clue. And honestly, their agent didn’t have a clue. And it’s not as if any other agent is you know, this is not us. Ogan mad about any other agent. There’s a lot of great agents out there. But if you don’t know what you’re selling, it don’t matter what product Turian. You just you’re gonna get caught. And there’s a lot of situations like that. So, you know, we don’t we’re not we’re not smarter than the next guys, just that we have done this for a long time. And this is a real it’s the industry has been around, but it’s still, as you guys would attest to, it’s still it’s still in its infancy stages. You know, without a doubt, it’s growing huge growing. But it’s it’s still new. It’s a newer concept, if you will, compared to the ways of old. So we’ve been doing this longer than anybody. So we feel like we know the product. We know the industry in it. If it takes some, we’ve had to we’ve had to educate some underwriters that didn’t have a clue what this product was, what it did, what it didn’t do. So we’ve we have, like Craig said, we have we have done a we’ve gone around the show to convince these insurance companies that this is a good, good industry. So we we feel like we’ve gotten done in some places.

SPF Insurance:
And another aspect with that, guys, and course this is where the rubber meets the road is when I claim it’s turned in. And that’s another horror story that we hear all the time. I’ll have somebody call in and that’s what somebody else. And they’ll say, hey, my Gestur, just call me and ask me questions about this and that. And looks like we’ve got some more store problems in this house and they’re blaming it all on me. And of course, that’s what happens in the industry. And I may not have anything to do at all with the SBF contractor has to do with the ICAC contract. And so our gestures don’t roll over, if you will. In other words, we know about more your clients. We know about Bluejays. We know about all this stuff. So it’s not a situation where our company or carrier goes after instance. Yeah. Here’s your check. The schol go home. So that’s really important, especially with the carriers for now on what they’re doing. Now, another covers that obviously that’s very important of these guys is workers compensation. And as all of you all know, workers compensation is what coverage to the injury to the employee? Well, one of the things that we have worked on over the years, and this is something else that we try to tell other agents and try to tell other SBF contractors, explain to your agent that applicator ing spray foam is like painting. It’s not the regular, if you will, unskilled labor, so to speak, of foot inside the fired insulation is very skilled. And so once you explain that to an underwriter and say, look, this is not somebody crawling around in attic just on his knees and that sort of thing, a lot about at all. And then we show a little video of what the applicator looks like. We show what the applicator system looks like. We show them how they advocator system. How’s that? How’s and kind of walks into the house. So we think that’s really important.

Don Clymer:
So there’s a lot we’ve talked about a lot of different coverages and I don’t know all the terms. But on average, if a guy wants to come in, one of our contractors and then you made reference to, hey, he could get a really low premium. But each time he’s going to get dinged one hundred and fifty dollars for this. One hundred and fifty for this. Hundred fifty for that on average, two to be fully insured to where you guys would be comfortable with, say, Dave Phyto. You know, a lot of people in the industry know him. What percentage increase would you say a guy who who started he started with a different agent. Now he comes to you guys, he hears this podcast. Is there a percentage say it’s going to be three? Is it going to be five? Is it gonna be 10 percent more than what he’s paying currently for an inadequate coverage? And I know I’m kind of putting you on the spot a little bit, but, you know, all these guys are I can I can see our listeners if I was a contract right now saying, holy shit, I don’t have this and I don’t have that, I don’t have this. But can I truly. And for a. It. I know long term. If they have one claim, they can’t afford it. Right. But is there. Can you say is it 10 percent more or is it 20? What are you thinking?

SPF Insurance:
Well, I mean, without Santa like a huge commercial, Don, we will be as competitive or even more competitive than what they’re doing. Sure. And the reason I say that is because, you know, we know in order to produce a special market, special niche program in our industry, the only way to do that is you have to convince the insurance companies to throw in some of these bells and whistles for free. And so even though we all know there’s no such thing as free, there’s going to say an insurance company is thrown something in Ferrari.

Don Clymer:
Come on. Yeah..

SPF Insurance:
I agree on a moral and disagree with it, but they make sure that the right that they have, you know, will consist of somebody so.

SPF Insurance:
Sure. You know, the big difference you run into. And this is another thing that people kind of get confused about on insurance. Is that right? Is different in every single state. So it’s not the same right in Minnesota as it is in Missouri or Arkansas. So a lot of times when a car can run into the guys at the shows and that sort of stuff and two guys will get together and they’ll go, Hey, man, I’m paying after the you know what for work comp or for general, I yeah, it’s killing me and the gas is hell. I’m only paying this and then they compare it with each other. And that’s just not a fair comparison because it’s not like mine chemical. It’s a different from every state, depending on obviously the litigious environment of that state. Sure. But as far as that competitive part is concerned, you know, we’re usually very competitive and it’s simply because we do have one of the lowest rates we feel like in the nation. You know, for it for what we do and probably wouldn’t be a five percent difference if any difference at all.

Don Clymer:
Well, and it’s hard to quantify, right. I mean, because you don’t know when you’re going to need it and when you need it. That’s that’s exactly the time. It’s like, oh, man, I wish I had that. Just like with the ring scenario I was explaining earlier is like, oh, well, there we go, there goes vacation.

SPF Insurance:
Know you don’t want to find out whether you’re covered or not, you know, during playing time. Right.

Travis Pankake:
What would be a good place for some of our listeners to kind of, you know, maybe ask questions, is it is it fair to go to your Web site? Is it you know, is there some sort of, you know, get what I’m asking?

SPF Insurance:
I want to say the phone honestly, we we have a lot of information on our Web site. We have a lot of information. We could send the email. But honestly, every customer has individual needs and individual questions that are some are more important to others in different scenarios and different coverages. So we just about anybody and everybody to just give us a call. And what number is it? Toll free? It’s eight eight eight eight nine three six seven, eight, seven.

SPF Insurance:
All right. And we’ll put all this information in the description and links and everything. So don’t don’t feel like you have to pull over and write this down if you listen to this car. We’ll have it all in there.

SPF Insurance:
Well, and also, we do want you to know, I think Karkh alluded to it early. We’re not going to twist these people’s arms to try to sell them insurance. No, no. Also, please tell your customers that we want to help them because we know how it works. We’ve been doing it one hundred three years. You may not need us today, but I’ll promise you somewhere down the road, you probably will. So by us offering this, you will free information. We know that it will come back to us probably at some point in time. And even if it doesn’t, it just makes the industry more safer. And that’s that’s what we want to know for sure.

Don Clymer:
So a lot of good information. What? Go ahead.

Aaron Franzine:
Who started on? No, I was my I have one more last question. Maybe you were just gonna go there. But I had my hand up first. So sorry.

Various:
Go for it. So we said let’s hand. Yeah, yeah.

Aaron Franzine:
Anyways, what what advice can you give some of our customers to reduce their rates as far as safety programs, you know, other companies, they’ve had like a stretch in a balance program and a pre job, brief and respiratory, any like that that could help our listeners get the best rates they can.

SPF Insurance:
I’d say the number one thing, quite frankly, is, is it? And then they sbf business, you need to shop around. That’s just the easiest way, you know, to get the best rate is to shop around. And, of course, any safety programs that you have. Present them to your agent up front. Don’t wait for the agent to ask you, hey, you got a safety program. I went in and explained to the agent, really explained to the agent what the process is and how it works, how intricate the, you know, the proportions are is and how it’s almost impossible for people to get off ratio now and explain to them what an applicator is, how they’re suited up. Explained to him on an applicator assistant is. So there’s just a lot of things that that SBF contractor needs to explain to his agent, you know, what what’s going on and what the process is.

Don Clymer:
Is there any discount offered for certification levels going through different trainings, being certified through the manufacturers, having your distributor I.D.? I come out and do riggings, rig inspections, anything like that.

SPF Insurance:
I mean, it’s something that we would could and would certainly sit down and visit with you all about. If you’re interested in the situation. Yes. If we can possibly put something together and go to the insurance company and say, look, these are IDR certified contractors and here’s the idea program and show it to them, one, two, three, then yes. That’s exactly how you develop a program in the insurance industry to get better rights than what other people have.

Aaron Franzine:
Ultimately, it just reduces the risk to the insurance company. Right. If they’re trained and certified.

SPF Insurance:
Are our companies, our underwriters? Are are all open ears. They really are open eyes, open ears, open minds about this product. There are some carriers that don’t even. They’ll they’ll turn and run. If you say spray foam. But our carriers, we’ve. We have, for lack of a better word, educated them about the quality of the product and the process. And so, yes, they like Craig said, they’re willing, they’re anxious. They want to build and grow this program. And safety programs. There’s nothing that turns an insurance company on more than that.

Aaron Franzine:
I remember shopping for insurance when I was a contractor some twelve, thirteen years ago, and I probably made 10 phone calls to different insurance companies. You guys were talking about guns earlier like a trailer. I got guns in it. Yeah. Well, also also mixing Rob Chemicals is a big no no. So I heard they were taking one and I, I finally was able to sweet talk and show them some videos and nobody had any clue back then.

Don Clymer:
But this is all and on you go. And then you say you’re mixing chemicals in a trailer and you look like Breaking Bad. I can see why it would run.

Aaron Franzine:
I’m thinking Breaking Bad or the premise for the show Ozark being die hard.

Don Clymer:
Exactly. Exactly. So this is a great sound advice and you know it overall.

Don Clymer:
Perfect. It’s been I think our guys are going to get out. Our listeners are going to get a lot out of this. One last question I have.

Don Clymer:
Before we wrap up is what is the craziest claim you guys have had come to spray foam related? I mean, is there any one that you guys are like, hey, you remember remember this guy? Remember final years?

SPF Insurance:
We’ve had so many. You don’t have to mention names. You don’t have to throw anybody under the bus. But is there one that just sticks out? Oh yeah. Yeah. OK. OK. Yeah. Wait, wait.

SPF Insurance:
Actually this is crazy too because this happened with, with Dave.

Various:
I, I would imagine not to name any names. Listen to this. Really had nothing to do with Dave.

SPF Insurance:
This is a great. Yes. Admit to the product. We have a local banker here in town that actually owns a bank. He had Mr. Farber come out and spray his attic, spray the underside of the attic area. We had a bad, terrible rainstorm and a lightning shot came down and shot right through the top of the roof into the attic. And in doing so, the neighbor across the way, if you will, this Yoma live out in the real kind of a rural area. He saw the smoke coming from the thing from the house. So obviously, call the fire. Amen. They all ran over there. Well, the foam obviously up in the roof kept the house from burning down because it literally almost say, say, the fire. But obviously, it didn’t ignite. You know what? I’m starting to insulation’s or anything can happen. So it literally was was was term the reason why the house did burn to the ground?

Travis Pankake:
That’s great. Don, add that to the the things that is great about spray foam.

SPF Insurance:
It’s lightning proof lightning. Now, I can give you some horror stories on overspray if I describe them. They may be some of your customers and go, well, why do you do that?

Aaron Franzine:
The same goes for later. Yes.

SPF Insurance:
If we find it 50, 75 cars, we’ve painted motorcycles. We find it all kinds of stuff. Unreal overspray. Bidding. Right. That’s why you buy insurance. And that’s one of the reasons when those customers call in, their first thing is, man, you’re not going to believe this credit card.

Various:
What I would say you ain’t gonna believe this shit. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Lay back. Stay back. There they go. Yeah.

SPF Insurance:
Tell them not to worry about. That’s why you buy it. You know, so we know what happens. And we do our best to make sure that our carriers don’t just dump our contractors because I have one little lower strike line. So we just we just make sure that we fly as much.

Don Clymer:
Well, guys, this has been a ton of information. Awesome. Where can give us the Web site? Give us the phone number again.

SPF Insurance:
Ok. So the phone number is eight eight eight nine three six seven eight seven. And then the website is W w w dot SPF insurance group dot com. Perfect Air Force if they want to e-mail questions. And on that be fine too. Because our e-mail addresses are obviously on that side. So if they want to e-mail it, some of the Kirker e-mail something to me. Both of them are honored, is seen as something.

SPF Insurance:
But like in our business, like Kirk said, it is easier for us to talk on the phone because there’s just a lot of terms and things that, you know, you could go on and email for five hours trying to.

Don Clymer:
Right. Right. And for the listeners, too, I mean, you can e-mail our value podcast at Idei Emman dot com. You can talk to your local idei rep and we can get you in touch with with these guys and just start asking the questions. And it may be a fit, maybe not. You know, we have a lot of customers in New York, Arizona, and they could help you out with the coverage down there. We you glad to.

SPF Insurance:
Yeah. Guys, we appreciate. We appreciate this opportunity and this to reach out to you guys and to your customers. And anybody out there. Yeah, we’re in the we’re in the business of selling insurance. Let’s not kid ourselves. But, you know, the way you get a sale is is, in our opinion, service first and let these folks know that, you know, we know the product. We know that the industry and we’re gonna be here, you know, we’re gonna be here after the sale. So we we always get each other with with Craig and I. You get two for one. So there you go. If we’re busy, we can’t a lot about it. But it’s it’s true. We tell folks if Greg’s on the phone or out or with the customer, ask for her. So and vice versa. So, I mean, we’ve got a full, very, very qualified, trained staff in this in this industry. Our staff probably knows more than 90 percent of the of the industry. Right. And this product. So anyway, we we feel like we can you know, we’re we’re we’re a medium sized agency. So we’re big enough to. Take care of the customer. You’re never going to be a number. You’re so awesome. That’s that’s that’s big for us.

SPF Insurance:
Yeah. We follow the same principles as IBRD US.

Travis Pankake:
I was just going to mention, you know, you’re been a great partner and, you know, I’m going to guess in about six weeks from now and this thing airs, you’re your e-mails and your phone lines are gonna be lighten up because I a lot of great information, you know, just specific to the different coverages needed questions asked. So, Craig Kirk, I appreciate you guys this time. I’m glad this mobile. I mean, we’ve got three different four different guys here. Well, two, two and one.

Various:
But we did. Well, you know, it only took one. How many tries? Six, seven tries to. Oh, you’re the guinea pig. And we’re talking about it. Yeah, exactly. We’ve got to sort it out.

SPF Insurance:
You we didn’t take the equipment out of the box till this morning because we’ve had so many games, you know, with just schedules and. Yep.

Various:
And it’s crazy now with everything that’s going on that this is one that actually work a little in the middle of a crisis. Yeah.

Various:
Maybe that’s a good sign. Yeah. Everything happens for a reason, right? Yeah. Take us away. Pancake, though.

Travis Pankake:
Thanks, listeners. You’ve been listening to our value with Craig and Kurt Campbell from Spray Foam Insurance Group. Everybody stay safe out there. And I think I’ve been hearing.

Various:
Wash your hands. Wash your car. Wash your hands. We bet you do. Thanks, guys. Thanks, everyone.

Thanks.

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EPISODE 09

The Buzz About Human Resources with Richard Hines, CEO of Buzz HR

When a small business starts to grow, they soon realize how much comes along with that growth. The intricacies of hiring, benefits, workers comp, payroll and so much more can be overwhelming.

May 2020  | 43:13

Join Travis Pankake and Don Clymer as they welcome Richard Hines, CEO of Buzz HR to help businesses of all sizes deal with these issues. Richard has a very broad and interesting background from running his own businesses to selling commodities and insurance. And this experience launched him into what drove him most – helping fix the challenges that so many face in running their day-to-day businesses.

Listen to this incredibly informative episode and see how Buzz HR analyzes a customer’s business with a buyer’s journey, in order to support only the services that are needed, and nothing that’s not. See how this approach will help you stress less and find and retain the best employees for your company.

4:06 – Richard Hines’ varied background

7:28 – Disaster relief brought new perspective

10:37 – How Buzz HR was born

18:34 – A whole new approach to HR

26:04 – Best in class partners to serve your needs

30:21 – That thing you forgot? Buzz HR remembered

34:14 – You don’t know what you don’t know

38:33 – The right company culture brings success

Season 1, Episode 9 Transcript

RVAL004 BuzzHR.mp3 transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

RVAL004 BuzzHR.mp3 was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best audio automated transcription service in 2020. Our automated transcription algorithms works with many of the popular audio file formats.

Various:
So one of the joys of working from home, I’m locked in my office downstairs and my son is outside banging on the door, crying his eyes out to get in, and he wants to be on the podcast.

Various:
This is the one and only the original podcast where you can find yours and your business’s true value. You’re listening to our value brought to you by America’s insulations source idea distributors. You want to hear from the best contractors, suppliers and consultants that dedicate themselves to more than just survival in the business world. Industry professionals that are dedicated to excellence in every aspect of their business. Our value has Amala here to share that same motivation and knowledge with you. Tune in and grow more successful, profitable, educated and recognized business. Listen to the Value podcast to become the industry leader in your market. Find your value with our value.

Travis Pankake:
Hello and welcome back to our value brought to you by Idei Distributors. This is the Insulators podcast. We’re here to bring you industry experts in building science, fiberglass spray, foam, spray foam equipment industry and business and marketing leaders, as well as many others. Sit back, relax, take some notes. You’re listening to our value. I’m Travis pancake sales and training here at Idei alongside my co-host, Don Climber, national spray foam manager. How’s how’s it going out there in Corona virus world, Danny?

Don Clymer:
Stir crazy. It’s kind of like we’re we’re in Vegas. You can. Nobody knows what time it is. Nobody knows what day it is.

Don Clymer:
You can drink at any time. The kids are going crazy. It’s it’s fun. So it sounds like this is a good thing for you. Pretty much the norm. It’s a dream come true.

Don Clymer:
It’s a it’s it’s interesting. The kids are going a little stir crazy. Mom and dad are going stir crazy. But we’re we’re making it through.

Don Clymer:
All right. Well, what do we do what do we talk about today, Danny?

Don Clymer:
We are talking about Buzz, H.R., let’s say a new company, a fairly new, I should say, that deals with everything business related. Help, help small, medium, large sized companies deal with other H.R. needs and and so forth. But we’ll get into that with our guest here in a little bit. First, I want to mention one of our sponsors for today’s show is Natural Polymers. If you guys don’t know natural polymers, you need to need to go to idei insulation dot com and kind of read up on it. He’s got a really interesting story of how he started and kind of why we partnered with him. Just real quick. He’s located in just outside of Chicago, Illinois. This guy has done everything in the spray foam industry from being a chemist at a large chemical factory to insulating homes with his own business, building his own rigs. And now he’s at one of his top suppliers for spray foam. You can check them out at Natural Polymers, LLC dot com and give your local idei rep a call to discuss cinema. Any interest you have with natural polymers? Excellent. Yeah. So on today’s show, we have Richard Hines, CEO of Buzz H.R.. A little bit of background on this guy. So I met him a couple years back through mutual friends. And within the first probably two minutes, our conversation turned to deer hunting and ninety nine percent of our conversations focused around deer hunting. So this is going to be a little awkward for us to not workin deer hunting stories.

Travis Pankake:
So I guess it was probably deer hunt so we could talk a little deer hunting, too. We go down that rabbit hole.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. Hey, I’m all for it. But I got to know the guy. I really got to like him and sitting here thinking of guests for the show. He was a guy who came to mind when when I was thinking, like, how can we help our customers? This guy’s going to he’s a he’s a figure it out type of guy. He’s done everything from selling pork, commodities to a landscape company in Montgomery, Alabama. And then when Hurricane Katrina hit, you went back home to help out family and friends in that business just kind of started to grow to tree removals, roofing, carpentry, just anything out to or anything to help the community out. And then with the fall of the the housing economy in 2008 and then the Deepwater Horizon spill in 2010, it’s kind of time for him to make a change. So sold insurance for a while and then fast forward to 2019, offers opportunity presented itself that allowed him to run in a direction where he could focus on his passion, which is fixing the problems that challenge business owners most. And we’re about to find out what what those problems are and how he can help. So with that. Welcome, Richard Hines to the show.

Richard Hines:
Thanks, Don. I’m glad to be here today. I appreciate the opportunity to jump on and spend some time with you and Travis as well.

Don Clymer:
It’s good to see you. I haven’t seen you since you left Louisiana for Colorado, but coming back soon.

Richard Hines:
That’s what that’s what I hear. We’re looking forward to it. I’m hoping that we land somewhere close again.

Various:
You heard it here, folks. Danny’s headed back your way south. Watch out. I figured out where my family is not meant for being north of the Mason-Dixon line. That’s what you mean by S&P. Your line snow people.

Various:
You mean your wife isn’t. That’s true. You there. Quick. Real quick. Real quick. No offense, Vera, but I love you.

Don Clymer:
No, like I said, Richard and I are you know, we we are. Our friendship came together over deer hunting. And you can the text messages spike starting about September, timber up and go through January. And just different tips and tricks and what you’re seeing out there and who’s shooting what. And you shot a nice one this year up in Mississippi.

Richard Hines:
I did a shot of two hundred and sixty pounds. Hundred and fifty inch with a nine point. So minus deduction. I was a big deer was especially for for Mississippi. It wouldn’t really get him to that weight very often.

Don Clymer:
I was just going to say for for the people listening up in the northern states, in the Midwest, you think that that’s the only place you can get a big toad?

Don Clymer:
Surprisingly, when I moved down south, there are some big deer down there and a 260 pound deer. I don’t care where you’re from. That’s a big one.

Richard Hines:
Immediately it was a Minnesota deer, but it’s still if it’s a big deer for down here.

Travis Pankake:
Absolutely. I’ve got to thank Donny. He got me in a deer hunting about five years ago now. So I’m still a novice, but I could see the addiction. It’s definitely becoming a money crabber for me. My wife doesn’t like that, but it is addicting and it’s fun.

Don Clymer:
So the other thing that Richard and I share are the not just pictures of deer, but the pictures of the packages from Amazon that get delivered to the front door that we have to hide from the wives without the interception.

Travis Pankake:
The five don’t spill too many secrets on us.

Don Clymer:
Yeah, true. True. We might have added that part.

Travis Pankake:
So, Richard, we’re down to it. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to kind of break in here, too, and just kind of, you know, maybe not to do much detail, but Hurricane Katrina, man. That’s. Tell us a little bit about that.

Richard Hines:
It was so when Hurricane Katrina hit, like Don mentioned a minute ago, I had a landscaping company that I started up in Montgomery, Alabama, which is where I went to school in Montgomery, play baseball, had a great time, had a good bunch of good friends, good network. You’re going to start come back from port commodities and being up the God. I got a little bit outside and when Katrina hit, you know, the initial intent was, okay, look, we got a chain saw. I’ve got some landscaping equipment that I can go back south, I can get my parents place back in order and go go back to Congress. And so I took a couple guys with me that were on my cruise and came down to Louisiana. And when you got here that the amount of devastation, you you can’t even really put into words in terms of how much damage should be done. And so the first day we were here, I had bodies here locally, obviously had grown up here. But bringing Bobcat along and you start taking trees off of parents house and before you know it, you’ve got 15 people that have stopped by. And so I don’t care what it’s going to cost him, you can get it off my house next.

Travis Pankake:
So were you one of the first kind of people down there doing that made because you were busy?

Richard Hines:
We came down the day. I mean, it was the night after it passed. Oh, wow. Where what? Where I spent the majority of my life. I passed the exit getting off where I was supposed to get off my parents house in the house that I grew up in because they recognized I mean, you didn’t recognize. Everything was dark. There was no power, no nothing, no cell phones work. It was kind of it was real creepy, eerie, fairly.

Richard Hines:
The one of the thing about the people of Louisiana is that they come back together. That was, you know, it’s a good, wouldn’t it, Bill? Big town in the North Shore across the lake from New Orleans. But, you know, folks that we’ve grown up with, people that we knew, one after another after another. And it was like, well, I know a roofer. I know I know a carpenter. We can we can get somebody. So before we knew it, it was an assembly line method where it was. I know. I know. Guy, what do you need this town? I’ve got somebody that can can figure it out. Wow. That’s great. And off took a fun, fun adventure going into construction. I always worked outside and with my hands and while I might not have been the guy reframing a roof roofline, the entry had falling through. I still knew that I could put somebody good on the job and that it would be dealt with accordingly.

Travis Pankake:
Awesome. Wow. So he went from landscaping. What’s buzz? Richard, tell us a little bit about Buzzy H.R..

Richard Hines:
Yeah, so, you know, with that same mindset in place as many people in the industry did where you go, you’re not going to recommend somebody to come out and do a job, be it a plumber or be an electrician, whoever it is that you don’t trust, because there’s nothing worse than somebody coming to you and trusting your opinion on who they should use. Well, when they go out, they can do a crappy job. It’s a bad reflection on you. It’s it it’s it’s a cruddy feeling. Relationship networks work great in the construction industry. And to you, it’s a Don’s point. A few minutes ago when after the Deepwater Horizon spill, that’s that’s like the straw that broke the camel’s back in the construction industry, especially coming off the heels of 2008. So when I shifted over, I was like many insurance people seem like they make a good living. What do they do? And can’t be that hard. So I went off into the insurance world and started selling Business-to-business insurance and looking at my competition up there and the solutions that they brought it over know some of the headaches that insurance could put on a business owner at the time being deductions or worrying about how to get employees enrolled or what kind of coverage is all the minutia that goes on with that on a day to day basis. So if you look at it, you skin it back and look at the operations side. Well, what can make that easier for an employer? Because employers or business owners want to go grow their business, whether it’s insulation, whether it’s framing, whether it’s concrete. They want to be able to focus on their business. The stuff that sucks behind the scenes is a is a huge additional load work on the on the on the employer. And so you might ask, you know, what do you mean? What do you mean by that? If you’re starting a business, you know, awesome. I’m going to go. I’m going to go start my own insulation business and we are going to be regrade installers. What can we do this on our own. Exactly. But yes, all the money.

Don Clymer:
Yep. That’s a lot of our listeners right there. They they’ve worked for somebody and said, hey, we can do this on our own. Let’s let’s go do it. But why they knows how to install a bad or pull a trigger on a spray foam gun. They might be lacking in the business acumen, I bet. Right. They don’t know all this stuff. So that’s where that’s where a company like Buys H.R. comes into play. Right.

Richard Hines:
Absolutely. And for, you know, for business owners to that point down, you know, they they’ve got a great network. They do really good work. So that reputation precedes them. And they’ve gotten more work than at times than they know what to do with. If it was just getting up every morning, lacing up your boots, go into a job, spraying, being done with your job and going home at night as a business owner, they’d be I’d be awesome. You could just you could grow your career. You get as many crews as you want it, right. Go, go grow the business. But what what starts to become the problem that we’re going to we’re going to talk through a little bit of is crap. I’ve got to think about payroll. I look at it as employees paid. That’s step one. Step two. Okay, well, we’ve got to get their payroll taxes filed. Time step three. I’ve got it. You know, now we’re growing as an organization. I’ll get my employees paid. Oh, man. I’ve got workers comp. I’ve got to deal with Crowder with H.R.. I got. Yes, go ahead.

Don Clymer:
I was just going to say that the workers comp is one of the biggest, I think questions and concerns are guys going out and starting their own business right now, because from what I’ve gathered, talking to people across the country is it seems like for the spray foam contractor specifically, they get grouped in with the roofers for workman’s comp because that’s one of the oldest parts of the spray foam industry. So the insurance people are just I guess you’re a roofer and here you go. So I don’t know. You know, there’s a way, better way for them to navigate it. If you can help them, I’ll give them some insight as to what they should be asking, looking for talking to their insurance guy.

Richard Hines:
There is and there’s there’s a lot of options out there. And we can get it. We’ll get into the categories here in just a second. You know that in rounding out what his buzz is, if you think about all of those as it relates to benefits, payroll, workers comp, you know, you’ve got to put. But what does a benefits package, you know, because if you’ve defined benefit 15 years ago versus what benefits are now, they’re two totally separate discussions entirely. You know, then then it’s retirement. I mean, you look you when you find a good employer that you can trust what you have to do to keep them. A lot of employers will go. They’ll jump ship for a dollar an hour, not realizing that, you know, if you have a good benefits package, so to speak, and you can show them what that is worth, what the true cost of their employment with your company is. They’re not going anywhere.

Don Clymer:
And we just we just talked about that on a episode that we recorded a week or two ago about employee retention. Right. Especially for a huge issue. Yes. Especially for the younger generation. The millennials, you know, they want a career path. They want they want to see, you know, their how they’re valued within the company. And I think benefits is one that’s really overlooked in this industry.

Richard Hines:
It is insane benefits. And just to to to add a chuckle, and there’s something that the millennials and meals are total different. Buyer, consumer be there. They’re different mindset. And that’s not a bad thing. They’re taking a lot of things that we overcomplicated for many years and they’re making them easier. But I mean, something that I would have never thought of. We’ve been getting a lot of requests for it. Hey, we’re going to get pet insurance,

Don Clymer:
Pet insurance?

Richard Hines:
That’s right. For your dog. Is there anything they’re asking for it. So it’s it’s wild the way that you look at the consumer profile and the way that they buy versus the way that we always. I mean, they’re the ones that have gone the MSA out now. That’s a sure. It’s got a drip line I.V. in my arm of Amazon because I don’t have time because source on my hunting here throughout the year, you know, outside of it, it’s so so bus came together. It’s like. Well, what is the what is the buyer look like today? Because what worked five years ago doesn’t work today. It works today. Is it going to work in five years from now? And you hone it back into the at the millennials in it, they bring a lot of value to the table because they’re making things easier in a lot of ways. Sure. And what I mean by that is, is that Amazon.com with one of the things that we’ve noticed about her that I’ve picked up on about millennials, that they don’t like being told what to do. And I’m sure that I can appreciate that because they were they’ve been they’ve been picked on for a while that started getting old, but they didn’t wanna be told what to do. So the way that traditional packages have put together and put together is that, you know, it’s we’ve got a benefits guy. We’ve got a broker for this. We’ve got a relationship there. Peel all that back. Just because your tires flat down doesn’t mean you need a new a new truck. What do you need as a buyer?

Travis Pankake:
A tire. Yeah. But, you know, that’s exactly what you need, a tire.

Richard Hines:
But the sales guy is going to come in and they’re going to try and sell you a new truck. And so, you know, rims are they’re going to try and say, Isa, you know, you can never just hear what the buyers are looking for. And so with Buzz, you know that that’s where we are. You think about doctors, okay. Doctors hate Web M.D. because people come up and show up to the doctor’s office and they’ve already diagnosed themselves recommend right here for themselves to fix the problem. All right, great. We’ll look for business owners. Why are you why are you Googling? How many of you out there who have typed in Google before, best workers come, cheapest workers comp? How do I do workers comp? The easiest? What is worker’s comp? Where would it go? Yes. Why do I have to have it right? How do these nasty letters with bills on them in and it’s, you know, not to discount any one of these categories because H.R. you think of H.R., have you thinking about this? What would you say on H.R.? They get a phone call. I’m going to perform. I’m going to get.

Don Clymer:
I know our H.R. department real well.

Richard Hines:
So each one of these there, H.R. benefits, payroll, worker’s comp. I mean, they’re all I don’t want. If we classify them or categorize them as just for the sake of conversation is a vendor. Every one of them has their own agenda. The health insurance got to try and sell you every policy that you can because they’re commission driven tour workers comp, they’re worried about what you know, they want a good place here and they want to place your coverage and find your coverage. But at the same time, they’re not worried about the workload that’s heaped on to you or your payroll person. And, you know, for ninety five, I’d ninety five point eight percent of the companies out there, it’s especially small, you know. Twenty five and under 20 and under. You don’t either. Mr. Business owner or most business owner.

Don Clymer:
Well, a lot of times that’s our our contractor spouse. Right. Or somebody within their family that they know. And it’s just like here, here’s some cookbook’s go to it.

Richard Hines:
It is. And look, I mean, I was in the payroll world for I didn’t sell payroll, but I have a great understanding of it. And it it it’s it’s hard. It’s not an easy task to get set up. You hire new employees, especially if you if you’ve got a lot of turnover taking place. Yeah. I mean, it it’s miserable and you’re filing quarterly and you’re trying to get your taxes withheld remitted. You’re making sure you’ve got garnishments. I mean, just all those layers that go and just just specific to payroll, that’s before you even get into the rest of it. And so with with Buzz, what do we do? Look, we take you on a buyer’s journey. What do you new. That’s fancy as a sooner.

Richard Hines:
Yeah. It’s not trademarked yet, but it’s in process.

Travis Pankake:
Let me. Let me cut in here a little bit, too, Richard. You know, just kind of scanning your your Web site, Buzz Desh H. ARCOM, little plug for you. Looks like it’s kind of an al carte approach. Is that common for services that you provide? I mean, it seems to be kind of set you apart.

Richard Hines:
It does set us apart. You know, because a lot of them you would have to have one component and one component over another.

Richard Hines:
So you’d have to start with with payroll. You’d have to have one. One element or another in order to beat to to jump in with us. You know, to the point I made a minute ago about what do you need if if you need help in one specific area. We’re here to help you in that one area. If you don’t if you want it, if you want to bypass anything or you don’t need help in an area. Good. Leave it be. We’re not here to over the top sell you on the services that you need. But we are here to do is to keep you from going out there to the search engines and just aimlessly searching for solutions. Because, look, we’ve I’ve turned over a lot of rocks in my career and I’ve seen a lot of gravel underneath those rocks. But every once in a while, you come across, you’ll uncover a pearl, you’ll uncover a gem under there in by Jim. I’m talking about the partners that we have in each one of these categories. We look, if you’ve got a relationship, you Roker’s that you love good. Keep them. If they’ve you love them that much, there’s a reason you love me. You probably want to meet them too, because we work with best in class local relationships, looking to unplug anybody or break anything that’s working for you today. If you’d like to payroll, keep them. If you don’t let us intuition, let us send up to a better way to where it be easier for you administratively.

Travis Pankake:
And it looks like you guys can have a go at it from a consultative, consultative approach. Right. And you’re going to go in and kind of explore and ask questions and say, hey, well, you know what? That seems to work fine, you know, but. And then suggestive services, right?

Richard Hines:
Yeah. So if they think come nuts and they say, look, no one I got get payroll set up number two. OK, what’s your second? We stack rank based on the level of importance to you as a consumer. What’s keeping you up at night? What’s your biggest headache today? What’s on fire? We put that fire up at number two. What’s the next what’s your next biggest pain point? Let me give you an aspirin for that headache. Number three, we let them stack ranking based on what’s most to least important. And we address them incrementally and get them into, you know, into installed into a way to reduce that pain point for them.

Don Clymer:
So let’s talk a little bit about that. So if if one of our contractors says, hey, I really want to offer benefits because I’ve got a couple of guys on the crew that, you know, they’re lead guys and I want to keep them. I don’t want them to leave for another dollar an hour to the guy next door. Can they say they have ten guys, but they only want to offer health and retirement for three of them? Is that a possibility?

Richard Hines:
There there’s there’s a couple that’s a loaded question there, Don, because there’s there’s a few variables in there in terms of discrimination laws and some some things that you have to be be careful of.

Richard Hines:
But, you know, there’s ways there’s some creative ways that you can get in there and kind of find out. Right. As a business owner, where do you where you want to take your business? Where do you see yourself in five years and 10 years? I will. Based on what we’ve seen in other business owners do that have been successful and I’ve worked for them in terms of creating that culture and that true benefits package, I would I would recommend going this route or I would recommend going down that route. We would have further discussions and see, you know what, every group is different and one size fits all, that’s for sure.

Don Clymer:
So it’s kind of like business consulting, right? To the degree it is, it’s business performance management. I like it. Is that trademarked?

Richard Hines:
No, it’s just gotten written down to get a little little side credit there, then.

Travis Pankake:
Richard Huh. All these these catchphrases we’re helping out with today.

Richard Hines:
That’s right. It just you just it’s sparking thought. You know, Don, he’s good at that.

Various:
And I really get at. I am. Yeah.

Travis Pankake:
Coming up with small anecdotal things.

Richard Hines:
He’s been working from home, so probably hasn’t heard that much lately. Hear that. Or I’m just not that intelligent. I think you’re really smart. You’re maybe not.

Don Clymer:
So, you know, we keep hitting on the workman’s comp, the benefits. You know, there’s a lot of a lot of questions that our guys have. You know, just one of the one of our contractors I don’t know if we talked about this earlier in the show. I’ve already forgotten I’m going crazy. But he has gone off on his own. And, you know, he he’s worked for a couple different companies. And now is the time for him to take that step and start his business. And he’s like, you know, I don’t know what I what I don’t know. He’s like, you know, child support. How do I deal with a guy who’s got to pay child support? And, you know, can you guys help navigate those waters?

Richard Hines:
And that’s a great question. You know, so there’s a few things there.

Richard Hines:
So for the workers comp, look, worker’s comp. Guys, they come out. They buying coverage like the brokers get you set up on it. And they’re gone. Well, then you’ve got to understand. So there of course, there’s a few states that are that are a little bit more challenging. If you look at Ohio, Washington, North Dakota and Wyoming, I mean, they’re monopolistic states. So they’re a little bit more. There’s there’s more red red tape you’ve got to cut through in order to bottom coverage and get it set up in those states. But for the rest of us out there, you see or, you know, you really you don’t talk to your workers comp guileless. You know, a you’ve got a claim which nobody wants to do. Or when you get that letter, it’s like, oh, it’s time for an audit, boys. I’d rather pull my teeth out and go through an audit. It’s miserable for those guys, especially when I got 15 jobs go on right now. I’ve got too much to worry about. I don’t I don’t have time to go through an audit. You have to go through the audit. So the proof of concept of everybody wanting to have one central location to be able to manage all of their back offices, they can grow.

Richard Hines:
Their business isn’t new. You know, there’s been companies that have come out there and they’ve tried to do it all. And what I mean by that is it’s like, yeah, we’re we’ll be your broker will be your payroll. We’re going to be your workers. I will do it all. I’m not saying that bus doesn’t do that because nobody can be good at everything. And I that’s that’s just interest, you know, because your benefits, your payroll, your workers comp, all of those are when we’re flying at 20000 feet. There are some subterranean I mean, it is deep how much each one of us go in there hard. So when I use the analogy about turn it over rocks and finding those pearls, we’ve got best in class partners that specialize in each one of those areas. Now, Buzz, is your first point of contact with we’re like the, you know, the pilot, that it’s turning the dials in the cockpit, so to speak. You call us with everything. We get it corrected with our partners, and then we get you wrapped back into a consolidated bill at the end of the month. So it is one source, but it’s third best in breed partners in each one of those categories working on the same same Chessie themselves.

Don Clymer:
Are the customers dealing with dealing with each IRF or they are dealing with budgerigar jar?

Richard Hines:
Correct. Or they’re dealing with us where they were their client experience.

Don Clymer:
And you have people in each state or, you know, sales reps that go out and do face to face or is it all basically online?

Richard Hines:
High level is, you know, for an initial contact. You know, we run when I talked about that buyer’s journey, we do we do an analysis call. We find out where their pain points are. You know, then we put we do have people locally involved in all these markets that we that we introduce. That can be their local representation if they want to sit down, have a cup of coffee. A lot of meetings these days, as we can all attest to you right now, especially since we’re we’re not sitting in the same office. Everyone’s right. It is is holed up and in the wake of corona virus. But what is coronavirus going to do to you, to everyone moving forward? Is this going to change the way that this is operate? Is this going to change the buyer’s persona?

Don Clymer:
You think it’s going to change? Is this, you know, some stuff to a degree? Right. I mean, we can’t go through through something like this that none of us have been been through before and not come out of it with changes. So how does that affect our our little guy, you know, our contractors and excuse me, you know what what type of things should they be thinking of now to prepare themselves for if this does happen again? God forbid.

Richard Hines:
Oh, God forbid it doesn’t happen again. But thankfully, you know that the construction industry, I think, is only going to become stronger from this of here and welcome in there.They’re part of the essentials as far as a lot of stuff. Love a lot of clients that we have that we’ve been working with have been there. The construction hasn’t slowed down in any shape or form, and I don’t see that happening. But as far as the face to face meetings, the personal interaction is going to be distanced for at least of the next couple of months. But moving forward, what do people want? Because, look, I want to if I if I meet somebody once like you and I could do business together indefinitely, Don, because we’ve not because we just have a rapport from talking on the phone, but we know each other. Yeah. I mean, if you need me, I want to look the person eyes. It’s me personally as a as a buyer is that you’re running a business just to know that I can look into the soul of them. So a lot of it is done virtually now. But if they still desire that on the ground in person, then we’ve got somebody local that can that can facilitate that need as well. To your point about workers comp coming together, you know, the jumping back in. They score. We can set up pay as you go. We’ve got a partner that can set up pays. You go regardless of who they’re using for payroll kind of content. It’s an audit system where they don’t have to go through the audits. It takes on that responsibility for them. So it True’s up. They’re not overpaying. They’re not underpaying. It automates a lot of that on the back it and for them so that they don’t have to deal with the to the nasty grams that they get. It’s in the mail.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. And one of the things, too, is like just the standard H.R. stuff, right, that, you know, you you mentioned discrimination. You know, a lot of our other of our guys probably aren’t aren’t thinking of that. So how is there. How do I want to phrase it? How can how can Buzz help with that? Just general H.R. stuff. I mean, do you have, I’m assuming specialists and that have them help them write an employee handbook, that type of stuff, just to keep them in compliance?

Richard Hines:
Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, employee handbooks, a lot of companies out there will just go on and they’ll they’ll they’ll download or an employee handbook. Yeah, this looks good. We’ll use this one. Yeah. Well, each company being different and that that’s where the the the journey back to the journey again is that you as a business owner, you’ve got to have in your mind where you want it to go. You don’t want to just stay afloat. You got I mean, that’s the beauty of the American dream, is that you can take it, make it whatever you want to. There’s no ceiling as far as how far you can can go. What’s keeping you from getting there? What’s slowing you down? Well, I would win. I’m sorry, go ahead.

Don Clymer:
No, go ahead. I interrupted. So you.

Richard Hines:
And so the the you know, is it is an employee handbook. Is it policies and procedures? Is it just to review of what you’ve got in place today? The long answer short. Yes, we can we can help in all of those capacities. But with Buzz, you also get live advisory. So you’ve got an employee that showed up drunk for the fourth day in a row. You warned him the last three days. OK. Now we have to take action. He’s on 120 foot man lift and he’s about to fall off.

Travis Pankake:
So Heldens lasted 16 years doing that. And it’s only getting worse with this quarantine. He’s now he’s on the icy roof. Right, exactly.

Don Clymer:
But what if, you know, some of these guys are saying, holy shit, I need a handbook? What are the downfalls? I mean, what what could happen if they don’t have a handbook?

Richard Hines:
Well, it’s not what can happen if they don’t. But it’s it’s gonna be there to be their fallback from a policies and procedure side that when they win and if and when an issue arises. This is this is our plan to fix it, you know, with the documentation thing. Yet it’s having your you covered this what it really is. I mean, you think about coronavirus right now. Our government couldn’t even you know, they’ve been they’ve been fighting for the last two weeks over. We’ll go into politics for the day. But the bill. It’s a shame that they’re all the bullshit wrapped into it.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah. This is a No. Politics podcast.

Richard Hines:
Hey, I’m back up, y’all. Y’all can go. But some of the questions that we fielded in the last couple of days would would blow your mind.

Richard Hines:
I mean, from. From top executives at health insurance carriers to large group employers that are clients of ours said that the questions we’re fielding. Oh, my gosh. Really, you guys. You’ve got four H.R. people on staff full time and you’re asking us these kind of folks. So there’s just a lot of unknown variables that are that are rattling around up there. And that’s okay. And having somebody that’s that’s red, the red that’s in the legislative it’s in the documentation that knows the law to be able to substantiate the answer that’s given to them and provided on their behalf so that they can make an educated decision on the back end is paramount to any organization. And yet a lot of this stuff I mean, look, small business owners out here, I think it’s Madon, Donald, I’m just in chatting. That makes up a large percentage of the audience. There’s there’s grants there gonna be available. There’s a lot of things that are already going to that are written into the current legislative that’s not even been passed yet, that are going to they’re going to be beneficial to a lot of these guys. And it’s not from a take advantage of or make you less eager to grow your business. But there’s there’s things that are going to help you, and a lot of them won’t even know about it. What are they getting on Google and saying? And what am I had to help? Small business owner…500000 hits on that.

Don Clymer:
That’s what I was saying earlier. The guy I keep referencing is the he said, you know, I don’t know what I don’t know. Go on the Web site or give give the call to the 800 number you guys have and just say, hey, you know, I’m I’m starting a business and I need some some ideas on what I need to how to cover my ass, basically how to make me more efficient, how to build a, you know, have one contact that I can use for just about everything so I can go out, sell and grow my business. Right.

Richard Hines:
Absolutely. And look, you know, there’s obviously a cost for doing business that people people understand me. It’s just it’s operating expenses, you know? But when you you know, if you look at each one of these, you know, your insurance, your benefits, your payroll, your work is gone. All of those start to add up. But if you don’t know, it’s it’s it’s running like it’s Shipperd, and you’re more than likely you’re overpaying for the processes that you’ve got in place. You think about what’s your what’s your our worth at the end of the day? I know Don doesn’t love how much is it worth? Mine’s not worth much.

Travis Pankake:
And so the question I got for you, Richard, is so I’m sitting here, I’m listening into this, and I’m thinking to myself, I’m a I’m a small guy. I’m just a small business. Do I. Do I need H.R.? Do I need buzz? I mean, how is there a size that typically uses your services or can anybody might.

Richard Hines:
You might not. I mean, you think about looked as a five man group. I mean, where do they need these type of services to. They need H.R.. Probably not. But do they have questions? They don’t know they need some some help on the business side of things. So they need to better understand what what they do and don’t need to be doing. Do they know what they need to be watching for in terms of employee count, where when they do reach a certain threshold, then they need to take action here or there? We’ve got groups that are you know, they’re down to five main groups. It’ll just have some press, some some questions around automation features or worker’s comp or looking for somebody that can take and really run with the ball for them. Well, we’ve got some solutions wrapped around that. And then we’ve got some groups that are you know, when Buzz started, the intent was to really under one hundred to focus on that market where they may have one H.R. person. You know, some of these larger groups have, you know, one two hundred to two hundred H.R. people involved. And yet they still use some of the services that we’ve got because there is just a lot of moving parts when you get in those organizations of that magnitude.

Don Clymer:
Right. How do you guys go about and find your best in business providers or partners for these guys? I mean, what kind of vetting do you guys do for that?

Richard Hines:
Great question. So, you know, having been in the industry now for 10 years, I’ve been in war in several different hats and a few different organizations as well. It’s knowing the people and having the partners that stay in their lanes, specifically because a lot of people do cross back and forth that, you know, I might miss the best. I guess the best way to explain this is you’ve got somebody that, you know, you trust in payroll, but they sell workers comp and they sell benefits. Sure. Well, then I’ve got health insurance brokers that we partner with. Well, they don’t sell payroll, so. So the payroll person, if I have a payroll client, they’re going to be trying to sell the benefits partner or, you know. So we don’t want that cross-selling taking place because we don’t want no one. We don’t let the client feel like I might get multiple calls from different vendors that are supposed to be all on buses. You know, sure, we’ve we’ve vetted them out. We know we don’t want we don’t know that there’s maybe more partners out there that we’re looking for. Look, we’re always open to have a good conversation.

Don Clymer:
You know, given to. We talked a little bit about the millennials and that stuff. Is there any study out there or have you guys put any data to it? If you if a company of this size offers these benefits, the employee retention goes up by X, or is that still, too, at its infancy?

Richard Hines:
It’s still somewhat in its infancy. And main reason being is because the data wasn’t collected on the you know for sure. You don’t have any real estate case studies going to case studies, but you don’t have any long term effects of that. Well, I will tell you, just from having from seeing a lot of businesses that are they’re just ultra successful versus ones that really struggle is if it’s looking, it’s with culture, with hiring the right people. Know it’s with having a good team. You know, when you when you found your company, I mean, every business owner I’ve ever met has is passionate about what they do. They’re proud of businesses they’ve created and make they grow into something. It’s wildly successful in a short period of time. And before they know it, they forgot the people that brought them to the dance. Yeah. And so that’s a challenge for them that, you know, you can’t forget who brought you. Otherwise, it’s going to be you know, it’s easy come, easy go. They get passed up on the ladder, fallen back down. Yeah. There you go. To their unsuccess. But it by starting with the people hiring the right people and having them on your team, you can’t you can’t take it. You can’t overlook that or forget that.

Don Clymer:
Right. Well, I think this has been very educational. Hopefully it’s helped out some of the the listeners out there just at least to to start the questions. Right. And like you said, they might not need everything but to pancakes point. You know, it’s all a card. And, you know, they keep saying, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know. I would say it’s worth a call, you know. You instead of dealing with five different people to to help your business grow, you can have one point of contact and work with the best in the business. To me, it’s kind of sounds like a no brainer.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah, it’s kind of a I got a guy mentality. I’m mean, I call Richard over it Buzz H.R., you know, instead of having to figure out who to call. I’ll call your guy. Yeah.

Richard Hines:
That’s what got this whole thing go. I got a guy who used to drive me nuts and didn’t drive me nuts. I was kind of proud of it. Came the going joke at our headquarters here in New Worlds from my previous employer. People always said, hey, do you know anybody in the alarm industry? You can do it? Yeah, no, guy. When you look and get to work long before they sit in my office, be like, hey, do you know. Yeah, I know what you need. Yeah, I got that guy for sure. And so it’s, you know, it’s people. Right.

Various:
Can you guys hear that. I’m sorry. Can you hear that. Is that a monster? A throne of rhythm. It’s sort of one of the joys of working from home.

Don Clymer:
I’m locked in my office downstairs. My son is literally outside, banging on the door, crying his his eyes out to get in.

Richard Hines:
And it sounds like a party.

Various:
What a way to end it. He wants to be on the podcast. He’s got a deer hunting story for us. I don’t know if I’ve made it through a podcast at home without being interrupted by one of my kids. No, you haven’t.

Richard Hines:
There was a news interview the other night. It was funny because the guy was live on. I don’t know what network it was on. This is a little boy like come up behind him. Another kid comes in. He’s in a stream shared in Elsom. The nanny or the mom comes sprinting in the room, grabs the kids and dragging him up with the horse. Welcome to my world. We’re all we’re all live in it, my friend.

Don Clymer:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, now, Richard, we we set up a a page on on your website. It was a buzz dash HRR dot com forward slash Idei. Correct. Yeah. So if the listeners out there, if you have questions, if you want more info, go to that buzz dash, H.R. dot com forward slash Idei. And I believe it’s just kind of a contact form page.

Richard Hines:
It’s a contact form landing page, but it’ll let us know, look, you know, kind of give us a little bit of background on you in terms of.

Richard Hines:
All right. These these guys come they work with IDBI Direct. Not that we treat anybody bad, but there’s a little bit more eyes on it that can make sure that yellow kind of white gloved a little bit dirt a little bit more. And, you know, we’re going to treat you right either way. There’s there’s some savings that are available and we’ll we’ll be able to take care, you guys.

Travis Pankake:
Perfect. Excellent. Well, Richard, thanks. Richard Hynes from Buzz HRR, appreciate your time today. Great insight.

Travis Pankake:
We hope this drives a lot of traffic your way in about six weeks when this gets posted.

Various:
Look forward to it as well. Thank you guys for having us. Absolutely. Thanks, buddy. I appreciate it. All right, guys, we’ll talk soon, okay. Take care, my friend. You as well. Great meeting you. Even if it is over the Internet, how much? I’ll be off your way as soon as they let us fly again. Right. Excellent. Yeah, well, we’ll meet out in the Deerfield. All right. Thanks, everyone, for listening to our value. Stay tuned for the next episode.

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EPISODE 08

Your Personal Economy is Your Business Economy with David Avrin


Your business’ economic realities are directly related to your personal economic realities. If you want to help your employees you have to educate them (and yourself) on all of the options available.

Travis Pankake and Don Clymer are joined once again, back by popular demand, by speaker, thinker, business expert David Avrin. David lays out how the traditional buy/sell model of business has been completely upended by Coronavirus and how his business and businesses he interacts with are adapting.

David Avrin is the author of the celebrated marketing books: It’s Not Who You Know It’s Who Knows You! and Visibility Marketing!,  His latest Customer Experience book: Why Customers Leave (and How to Win Them Back) was named by Forbes as “One of the 7 Business Books Entrepreneurs Need to Read.”

2:20 – David Avrin is big in Vietnam now but facing a new normal

6:15 – The traditional buy/sell model isn’t working right now, what is?

13:50 – The wrong way to communicate to your customers

21:57 – Balancing your personal economy equation

25:01 – 3 reasons to help and educate your employees on the financial help available

30:07 – It’s going to get worse, so you better get better

38:49 – If you want people to be interested you have to be interesting

Season 1, Episode 8 Transcript

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RVAL008 David Avrin.mp3 was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best audio automated transcription service in 2020. Our automated transcription algorithms works with many of the popular audio file formats.

Various:
You’re not gonna, like, ask me to have lunch or something or, you know, I won’t get that weird. It’s a maybe dinner. Hey, listen, I just now it’s just getting awkward. Yeah.

Various:
This is the one and only the original podcasts where you can find yours and your business’s true value. You’re listening to our value brought to you by America’s insulation source idea distributors. You want to hear from the best contractors, suppliers and consultants that dedicate themselves to more than just survival in the business world. Industry professionals that are dedicated to excellence in every aspect of their business. Our value has them all here to share that same motivation and knowledge with you. Tune in and grow more successful, profitable, educated and recognized business. Listen to the Value podcast to become the industry leader in your market. Find your value with our value.

Travis Pankake:
Welcome back, listeners. This is our value, Travis Pancake, alongside my co-host at his home quarantined pillow Fort Don Climber.

Don Clymer:
The pillow forts are amazing these days, I betcha. I spend an hour every day rearranging the pillow for forward for the kids to play in it for five minutes.

David Avrin:
But I get a kick out of it because, you know, you don’t you don’t have an actual role in constructing the pillow for it. It’s not official unless the children construct it. You are invited into the pillow fort, but you do not play a role in constructing it. Once you’re past the age of 12, that is below four. It’s the kid. That’s exactly right.

Don Clymer:
So I kid a little, you know, with a pillow for it’s where the kids are like, no, dad, it doesn’t have to be that way. I’m like, no, go give me the duct tape, some zip ties and some rope. And they’re like, Dad, we just want a blanket over the coach. Like, No, it’s gotta be perfect. We gotta do this. Right. Exactly right. But do you see how it’s sagging in the middle?

David Avrin:
You have to tuck it under the pillow and then put the heat up. Yeah. I get the tension from the blanket the whole year to get the tension or you get the broom underneath. But Dad is too tall, huh?

Various:
And then then you cut it in half or anyway, enough about pillow for we can do a whole podcast on Bill Ford these days. That might help people out too. We are professionals. That is good memories right there.

Travis Pankake:
So what is that voice we’re hearing? Donnie, who is that? Who’s that guy? We heard him before.

Don Clymer:
Well, Travis. Back by popular demand, we had David Avrin. Yes. I got his last name out in the first sentence this time. And I didn’t wait to make the listeners guess who the mysterious guesses. But we have David Avrin, the visibility coach and author of three books. It’s not who you know, it’s who knows you visibility and Marketing and his latest customer experience book, Why Customers Leave and How to Win Them Back. How many languages is that in now, David?

David Avrin:
You know what? We’re up to five languages now. So I just I think last time I was on the show, I had just gotten back from Mumbai, India, and we had launched it in India, actually did an English version. And it’s coming out later on this year in Chinese, not going for that launch. And Russian. And it just came out in Spanish. So I’ve got to get a copy of that as well.

David Avrin:
It’s actually kind of fun in my office at Google posters up of my book in different languages. I mean, who knows? I mean, it’s. Oh, and Vietnamese, apparently. Apparently I’m big in Vietnam right now.

Various:
So maginn that once again. Once again by popular demand. Yes. Yeah. David Hasselhoff. Right? Yeah. That was big into the Hoff in Germany. Don’t hassle that. Some set some big records, I think.

Don Clymer:
Well, for the listeners, if you want a more in-depth bio, I encourage you to go to the podcast we did with David back in January and listen to that and as well as check them out at visibility international dot com. So, David. Interesting times right now.

David Avrin:
It’s a tough time, isn’t it? I think since the last time we talk, the world has fallen apart. And I don’t even mean that in any kind of a humorous way because it’s horrific. Not only are people dying and people are hurting and suffering any more than then we certainly know because we aren’t protesting. But it has been a tragic time for business. So I’ve actually been been very busy while most of my work, of course, I speak. So I’m on airplanes. I speak all around the world. Clearly, I’m not doing any of that. Unfortunately, I think everybody should feel really bad for my wife because all of my speaking now is happening at home and it is relentless the way it is. The kids and the dogs are taking the brunt of it. Oh, it is. It is a persistent spewing out of my mouth. And my wife’s like, do you don’t you have to go build something and build me something? Right. Like she’s giving me projects, but no, very busy in the office because because I’m working with a lot of my clients and organizations, construction otherwise across the board, helping them understand how to survive now and how do we make it.

David Avrin:
We know that it’s going to be over at some point. We know there’s going to be a new new normal. Well, we don’t know who’s going to be around. And so literally everything in my business right now and I’m not charging anybody for anything. I’m just like, how can I help? We talk so much about, you know, that we don’t want to be we don’t want to be a vendor. We want to be a partner. Well, what does that mean? I mean, what it means. It means that we have to be there for them when they’re hurting or we’re hurting as well. So my job right now, my volunteer position is just working with every organization that I’ve ever worked with, being on as many podcasts and others to give some strategies to help people survive this time, help their people survive this time, so that when we are one of those, that’s that’s succeed after the fact. We’ve got some great new strategies. We come out stronger and better and faster and smarter because I think there’s gonna be some winners economically in the next year when this is all done.

Travis Pankake:
Well, and thank you, David Avrin, for coming on again. Our response from the last podcast was great. We’ve got a lot of a lot of good, good feedback from it. So people did say you were funny, so that’s good.

David Avrin:
You know what? We’ve we’ve set the bar, so it’s hard to be how do you be funny during this time? But I think those of you stick around, you may be surprised.

Travis Pankake:
No. So you kind of started talking about it. But when we were talking last time in the podcast few months ago, one of the things we kind of focused on was customers that win are remarkably easy, remarkably easy to do business with. What what does that mean now and then? It’s Calvet nineteen Kreiss era.

David Avrin:
Well, part of it I think is for the short term, we’re redefining what that relationship is. And long term I think we’ve. Let me let me do that one first. I think we’re redefining in that we can’t ever traditional let’s sell to people and they buy it because everybody isn’t in the same mindset. We can look back to old customers and clients. How can we help you? Can we do any kind of a recheck for the others? Can we look in plan for something later in the fourth quarter of this year for next year? There are ways of nuancing that, and I’m happy we have enough time to talk about how we’re doing that, how I’m looking at other industries because we’re still selling. I just put my October is the busiest October I have ever had in twenty years in this business, which is stunning. For me, hopefully we don’t have this come back around again and lose some of that. But even in construction projects, things are on track for 20 21 deliverables. And we’re part of that supply chain right now. But here’s the other part that I think it really is the most profoundly different. Is that what has been forecast prognosticated for for many, many years? Is that so much of our life has gone virtual. Right. We people have talked about the future. It’s all going to ever be me. It’s not going to be all that, but it is going to be a part of it. We’ve learned that we can survive at home. We learn that we can have everything we’ve ever wanted delivered without ever talking to. So we’re seeing somebody face to face or being in physical proximity. It doesn’t mean that is preferable, but we know we can do it. So there’s always going to be an element in what it’s done. Is that already changing customers, changing even more the expectations of the customer in terms of expediency, in terms of access, in terms of what they can do from their cell phone has only grown.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah, we had, you know, the second person to basically say that, that, hey, yeah. Know this virtual life is great. It’s convenient. You know, you can get things without leaving home. But now that we’ve all been forced to stay home, that the brick and mortar isn’t going away. I think people are going to be absolutely wanting to go out. They’re going to you know, we need interaction, personal interaction other than just this zoom and these hot buttons.

Various:
They need our teenage children to leave. Yes. Right. And they can come back sporadically. Yeah. But. But I have two teenage girls at home, so.

David Avrin:
You going to the wire? You know, I’m just I have a teenage daughter who was, what, 20 year old daughter who was over in the Czech Republic. She was in Prague, in Eastern Europe, doing her second semester of her junior year. We had 48 hours to get her out of the country before they locked it down. And the presence that everybody’s got to be out to frantically try to get home multiple missed flights and she’s home.

David Avrin:
And it just felt so bad for her. And a month later, I feel really bad for me. Yes. Sorry. You know, 20 year old girls who are used to being on their own and now coming home and asking what’s for dinner? And anyway, the point is, our lives are different. And and you’re right. You’re right that we’ve learned that we do need that balance. But keep in mind, the pendulum is not going to swing all the way back. We have learned. That there’s a lot of things that we can do online on our phone. So in terms of our customers and part of what I want to talk about is how are we using this time to retool, to look inward, to get better at what we do so that when we do emerge, we’ve made use of this time. How often do we complain about I don’t even have time to work in the office. Right. I’m so busy doing up working on in the business that I’m no time to work on this. Well, guess what? We’ve been gifted whether we want to gift or not that time to work on the business. No, I do want to talk about some strategies to survive this time. But but part of that, as you had said, is we are learning that that business can be done differently.

David Avrin:
But more importantly, our customers are learning that they can do things differently. And those who don’t adjust, those who don’t accommodate are going to be left behind. Because when we do emerge, I think we’re going to emerge in phases. So it’s not like when we look ahead to the fall. I think things are going to be happening this summer. And even if it means, you know, like I’ve had work done on my house during this time, my floors redone, all we did was day away. Yeah, right. I had somebody also I was doing a call with another group that was that did window tinting. So I do some work with Eastman Corporation. They do their little MA film and all of that. And they were working construction sites. And they just have an arrangement that when they’re working onsite, the other ones are off and they really they stagger shifts and they have a cleaning protocol. Business work has to get done. Yeah. And so I’m done. Right. I’ve got I’ve got windows being replaced in my home, cashing in on my manufacturer’s warranty 14 years later. And they’re saying, do you want to schedule us out till till July or upset? Now, just coming out. I said I’ll just stay out of the way.

David Avrin:
You do. Your work will clean after the fact. That’s enough social distancing. But work needs to get done. And here’s the other thing I think people need to remember, even with something is is absurd and horrific is a 20 percent unemployment rate. That means 80 percent of the people are employed. That means 80 percent of the people are working. And they have things I somebody who just did a huge job in somebodies home, an outside construction vendor, and they said the wife is is a school teacher and the husband is a is a fire chief. He says the front losing their jobs. And and people have time and they’re sitting at home and they’re surfing on the Internet and they’re recognizing all the deficiencies of their home. For those who do work working on homes or home improvement and others, whether it’s it’s the cold that needs insulation in the winter, whether it’s coming into the summer months and realizing, you know, how how poorly insulated we are against the heat and whatever else. Eighty percent of the people are still working. It doesn’t mean that. And a lot of them are recognizing being at home that there’s some deficiencies. They write around, they say, you know, either they’re doing projects or something else.

Travis Pankake:
It’s it’s funny that you mentioned that, you know, stay home thing. I work from home a few weeks ago and I kind of holed up in the basement with kids and distractions upstairs. And I realized after sitting there, you know, in your moments of not being I mean, I got on a call. I can hear the slow drip just dripping and dripping. I could figure out where it was coming from. Well, I’m never down there for that, like the period of time, you know, for six, seven hours a day. And it turns out I had a pipe leaking and it was leaking on some shelves and it just hadn’t manifested itself to the rest of the basement yet. But so I called up a plumber buddy of mine and he fixed it in about 20 minutes. But it had been leaking for a long time. Right. Well, top shelf, I would have never noticed them.

Don Clymer:
Right. So, Dana, right. You say, OK, people are recognizing this. They want people to come in and fix it, insulate their attic because it’s cold, whatever. But there’s a new message the contractors have to relay to the homeowner or the consumer of safety. And is there. How should they be retooling their messages to the consumer, like, hey, during this time this is what we’re doing?

David Avrin:
Right. I think there’s a right way in a wrong way. And I think we would never have known that had we’d not been in this situation. Here’s the wrong way. The wrong way is doing a blast out. Everybody on your list to let everybody know that you’re monitoring the situation. And here’s the precautions you’re taking now in a vacuum. That would be the perfect advice to give. The problem is we’re not in a vacuum. We are in the within the structure of a competitive marketplace. I have gotten one hundred and fifty of those messages. Somebody that I bought a reflector for the bumper of my Jeep nine years ago has made and helped me sleep better at night because I know they’re monitoring the situation. Who gives a crowd? It has nothing to do with my life, but it’s damn saying, oh, we need to reach out. You don’t need to reach out until you have something to say. It would make sense if if you were the only one doing it. The problem is everybody’s too right. So I think the wrong way is any kind of an e blast to lettered Reno. The precautions. If you’re if you’re a food vendor, I think it’s a pretty smart I think you have to do it because they’re still open where they’re basically remind everybody we’re open for business.

David Avrin:
But I think some kind of a tailored pitch that is sensitive and has that balancing. Listen, we all know that these are extraordinary times. I like the authenticity of saying, like you, we’re working hard to feed our families. And during this time, if you find there is a need for X or Y, it would be our honor to be able to serve you. Here’s what we do. Here’s what we offer. And here’s the precautions we take. I think there is power in that level of vulnerability and authenticity. And maybe that’s just me, maybe just because I’m a sappy guy. But my brother in law, for example, is a musician like world class fiddle player lives in Nashville. He’s out of work, is everybody has all the bars are closed down all that. All the venues are closed down. So all the things they do is they do a little thing every night. They do a picking and grinning for an hour, him and a buddy on his guitar. And he plays his fiddle and they’re really talented. But they put in a virtual tip jar and he’s like, how do we do this? I said, you put your hand on your chest.

David Avrin:
And for those listening, there is a visual of saying you should put your hand on your chest where you talk and say, listen, this is our livelihood right now. If this means something to you, it would it would mean the world to us if you would help. Now, you’re not asking people to do you a favor, but just to recognize we’re all hurting right now and we’re all trying to feed our families. It was one of the things that I that I one of my messages when I’m speaking on stage mothers, we talk about our competitors. I show somebody that they’re not your they’re not your enemies. They’re they’re they’re good people and they’re hardworking people. We tend to be dismissive of our competitors. What makes us different? We actually listen to our customers. We tailors, everybody listens. You know, the worst thing about your competitors is that they’re nice people. They’re just good people. They’re trying to feed their families. And so to answer your question, I was gonna say to make a long story short to a I think that’s a powerful approach.

David Avrin:
It’s what I’ve done. I’ve seen others to do it as well. What isn’t is is a marketing pitch that that pretends like none of this is happening. That just looks stupid and insensitive. And it looks like it was a preplanned and an automated something.

David Avrin:
But the other ones, too, which legalese, which, you know, we’re monitoring, who cares which are monitoring. But Amy. So then there’s the answer that I think that’s a reasonable outreach that just say, listen, we we’re working hard to support our families as you are. And if there’s anything that we can help you with during this time, it would be our honor to do so.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah. Thank you. Know, we as a company have been using social media, Instagram, for example, some reps, you know, walking in their warehouse saying, hey, we’re hoping and everybody’s doing well. And in the meantime, we’re open. We’re here to serve you. And, you know, a nice thing. You know, bio video or, you know.

David Avrin:
And there’s also but there’s also you can also have fun with it. And I like what some of the doctors and nurses have done. Do a tech talk. I mean, if you want people to talk about you and just smile and just, you know, everybody wearing gloves or something, doing some fun, you know, if you don’t know what Tick-Tock is, ask your kids. But it’s. Be visible, but just don’t be visible and pretend it’s business as usual. Have fun, be irreverent. Just say hey. Know that we’re here when you’re ready. And. Ask me again in six weeks, because there may be more opportunity to be a little more direct about selling. But it’s hard it’s hard for me as a marketer, as a as a customer experience expert to get on on podcasts and others and tell people, don’t pitch your business because, OK, who’s going to pay my freakin bills for the next month? Who’s going to feed my staff? I got six people that I that I have to that I have to employ. What do you do it. My income because I speak for a living. It went to zero. Every event canceled. Every meeting counts. I lost six figures in business. Now I think some of that may come back. So part of it was I think that the advice I have is is part of what I did. I learned myself. And with your permission, I’d like to share a couple of tips of how to get through how to get through right now. And there’s a couple of things. First of all, for those who are business owners, I’m not telling you anything new.

David Avrin:
Maybe it was new three weeks ago. Apply for everything. Everything is changing constantly in terms of the stimulus package, the the ten thousand dollar advance, which really isn’t that which we’re finding out now is basically a thousand dollars per employee that just came through. And they’ve already made a modification, a little bit of a bait and switch. But hey, that’s money you don’t have to pay back. And then the peepee is the most important. That’s when everybody’s look at and I’ve got construction vendors who are doing very well on that. That is paying you back for employees and covering their costs for, what, two and half months or something. Once again, everything that you’re hearing will likely be extended. So keep that in mind. Every program, every initiative, every accommodation will likely be extended and there will probably a second round.

David Avrin:
So be a student of this as business owners, every program. It’s going to be processed. There can be process in the order of applications. So apply for everything. SBA disaster loans or traditional SBA Tricia SB SBA disaster loans are for hurricanes and natural disasters and floods and things like that. But there’s an economic damage portion of that. I will be honest. I will be vulnerable. I have applied for that as well and I got approved yesterday. It’s going to save my business and an even better they give me a 30 year payback term. It’s it’s it’s less than my car payment. And so that’s going to help. And my first payment on that SBA does ashlawn doesn’t even start for 12 months. So it whenever you’re listening to this, what I’m saying is probably already outdated, but the advice of become a student of it, apply for everything you can say no later on, but at least get the application in.

David Avrin:
The thing about the peepee, that’s very important. I know you’ve heard this as well. You cannot fire your people to be qualified for it. No, it doesn’t mean you haven’t. If if those who’ve already let somebody go or furloughed somebody else or whatever else, but it’s eligible for the people that stay. So here’s the question. How do we help them stay? So a couple of things. Number one, if you can reduce your bills or access additional funds excuse me, it buys you time. OK. So right now, the first thing, as I said, number one, apply for everything. Become a student. Keep checking back as it keeps changing. All right. The other thing that you can do for you personally is call every one of your own personal bills. Now, people have a pride about this, but I want you to know that they that your venders, the credit card companies you owe to are not Tugg. I’m not talking about your insulation venting.

David Avrin:
I’m talking you know, listen, you know what? I want to be clear about this because but we have to maintain strong relations with our suppliers. I mean, that’s our that’s our lifeblood. So I’m not sucking up to you guys by saying that’s not what I’m talking about because it’s not what I’m talking about. We have to maintain some sort of financial balance with our vendors. I talked about your personal bills, your credit cards, your mortgage, your cable company and your cell phone bill. You will be stunned at how accommodating they are right now. Now, I’ve talked to others who are saying I don’t feel bad and I don’t get the report. I understand they don’t care, I’m told. But the individuals who’s answering the phone, it is relentless. They’re working 14 hour shifts and they’re getting thousands and thousands and thousands of calls of people saying, I lost my income, I lost my job. So they have been already authorized and empowered the front line person to say, R.K., we can give you 90 days. No payments, no interest. It’s not going to be reported. I called on my credit card companies. I mean, I have the ability to pay. Sure. But it would be nice to buy some cash flow time until my my business picks up again. I call them all.

David Avrin:
And I said. And then they read the script. Has your business been adversely affected by Kobe 19? Yes. Are you unable to make your payment? Yes. OK. So I’ll give you 90 days right now. No. Anything else? And then they give you a sign, they say. And by the way, just call us right before the end of the 90 days. They’re probably going to extend it. Really? OK, cool. Yeah. So then I call my mortgage company and I find out not only do they say, OK, looks into for 30 days, then there’s new programs have come down. This saying if you call before that and you’re still struggling. They’ll extend it to six months. And if you’re still struggling, they’ll extend it to a year. Now, what they’re saying with the mortgage companies, and this is offer personal for business owners and leaders, is that at the end of that, you owe that back amount. They’re not putting on the end of their loan. But they’ve also admitted behind the scenes that they know that people are going to be paid 12 months of back mortgage rates and going into putting it on the end of the loan. I’m not a financial expert and I’m not an attorney. So but what I’m telling you is I’m hearing this from everyone.

David Avrin:
I’ve got my I’m reading every article and keeping up on every government program. So. So no one, of course, like I said, apply to every program that’s available. Number two, call your personal bills. I have I can’t believe I’m putting this on on recording. I have literally eliminated 12000 dollars a month. Of expenses. Wow. For at least the next 90 days. My wife’s like, what? I’m like our only bill right now is our health insurance and our food.

David Avrin:
Right now, I’m really focused on what my former wife. But anyway. But I’m just saying, the mother of my children, she’s a lovely person anyway. So it just bought us great time because my businesses I’ve already got gigs scheduled at the end, you know, in August and others as well. I get to go out and speak to these groups. I was stunned. Like I was like, what are we going to do with no income? We’re just fine. Because I called everything. Now, here’s the most important part.

David Avrin:
Do the same for your people. And I want you to listen to this. This is the key. Besides the last one, get all the dollars you can from the government. Number two is reduce your personal bills so it takes some pressure off you to support your people. And number three, teach your people to do this. This has been the single most effective thing for small businesses to keep their people employed. If your employees help them, tell them to call all their credit card companies, call everybody else. It’s not going affect their credit. There is an extraordinary level of accommodation because we’re in extraordinary times. And those who might be reluctant, they’re like, really? I mean, you guys, we’re like, really? You call it right there. They don’t take it to a committee to form a subcommittee and create a task force to decide whether or not they’re going to give you 90 days.

Travis Pankake:
They just do it on the spot is just gonna say this period of time for paying bills, I think is just give me a giant Asterix for everybody.

David Avrin:
Everybody and nobody is going to get reported. Then I can let him report it. Right. Right. So gather your people together and say, here’s what you need to do.

David Avrin:
If your if your installers, your your help me with the terminology within the safe space moment and installers, if they can eliminate five grand a month or four grand or three grand a month off of their bills, don’t you think they could handle half time reduced pay being furloughed for a short period of time if they’re if their bills go away?

Don Clymer:
Yeah. And if if the business owner is helping the employees do that and educating them on how to do it. That just builds loyalty, right?

David Avrin:
Absolutely. And that that’s exactly I think there’s there’s three reasons we do it. Number one is it’s the right thing to do because we want to take care of our people. Number two is we need to keep them. To qualify for the peepee program, which is extraordinary. And number three is we are going to need them. When we emerge, what the hell are we going to do if we lose all of our train? Spray foam installers and we’ve got to go back into the marketplace. And the fourth one is exactly what you said, which is who do you think they’re going to be loyal to? This is the way to support our people. I think this is the most valuable advice that we’re and all of a sudden, everybody in my industry, no matter what they used to speak about, apparently they’re now Corbitt 19 disaster recovery experts. You know, they could have been experts on on French pastry cooking, but now they’re doing webinars on on how to survive. Cauvin, 19. I don’t pretend to be an expert on the disease. I know that we will emerge from this. I know that that a lot of businesses will not survive. And so my personal job during all of this is to help them survive. And I think because Congress is is there is extraordinary level of of course, they don’t want to get re-elected. They’re just giving away money. Our grandchildren are completely screwed by the amount of debt that our country. But that’s that’s a conversation for another day for everybody who’s anti socialism. We’re going to put that off to the side for for a short time, because this this is the ultimate socialism, isn’t it? But if the government mandates that we close our businesses, then they also have a responsibility to support us during this time. And I know construction in many cases is considered one of those vital things. I think there’s a lot of people who could buy who don’t know that we’re open. You know, we know the tanning salons are closed. We know the chiropractors can’t do business are or barber shops.

David Avrin:
Right. So I’ve got a lot more product in my hair right now. But and here’s where the ball caps your taxes.

Don Clymer:
I took it off and so showed Pankake before you got on. And I’m like, dude, check this out. There’s not much there. But what’s there is out of control. You know, my my teenage kids like that.

David Avrin:
What’s all that crap in your hair? I’m like petting I. My wife likes it. I was to say their mom because my wife is somebody. I have a new wife. Yes. She’s she’s lovely and beautiful and I’m happiest man on the planet. But I digress. But I think I think that’s tangible things we can do right now. Yeah. Because it’s just simple things. I think we got to get through to three months and we don’t you. I mean, that’s I think to some extent there’s going to be work going on even if we create some measure of distance while we’re doing it. If we can reduce our bills during this time, then then I think we’re we’re in pretty reasonable shape. Now, here’s the last part. No, go ahead. No, you finish up. But I will tell you the last thing I think we can do to get better during this time.

Don Clymer:
Well, good Segway, because I was going to say you sent me something when when I reached out to you about, hey, you want to do another podcast? And you’re like, Yeah. You know, it’s going to get worse, so you better get better. What are some of your your other clients doing to better themselves during this time?

David Avrin:
And to be clear, I did say da da. So we’re actually reading my actual message. You know, I’m actually doing sort of virtual speaking of some people called webinars. I don’t like webinars, but I like the idea of virtual speaking, some still speaking life for organizations. I’m just doing it over the computer and I do it either in my conference room or in front of my white screen or something else. But that presentation I. I titled, it’s going to get worse. So you better get better. And the whole the whole rationale behind it is the reality that it is going to get worse in the next couple weeks. I don’t know when you’re when you’re listening to this. We’re recording it mid April, probably through the end of April. It’s going to be horrific. There’s could be some real tragedy happening with with some families and some who aren’t necessarily just because they’re elderly or compromise. We’re gonna see some very unexpected.

David Avrin:
But we’ve been gifted something that a gift that we didn’t want. And that’s time. And I think during this time, I think we have to get better. And I think we have to recognize that the customers have changed and they’re changing even more. It’s had been accelerated by this time at home. But it was already happening. And so how do we better recognize who they are? What are we doing to get better? And here’s the other part. Even if we’re getting government assistance. The the the payroll, the peepee program and everything else, to be clear, it doesn’t mean that your your people have to be stagnant during that time. You can you can get this assistance from the government for your people and we can repurpose our people. So when you listen to this, those who are listening right now, because I think this is really important as well, were people who would normally be springs foam insulation in a project that maybe is on hold. These are smart people. They don’t have to be dormant even if they’re working remotely at home. What else have you always wanted to do in your business? What did you learn at a conference? What did you learn on one of these? Are value podcasts that now you have time to implement?

David Avrin:
Is there somebody who is a younger person who maybe, maybe receptionist, maybe somebody else who can say, hey, you want to be our social media manager during this time? Can you reorganize your warehouse? Can you create a new inventory system? Take somebody out. Need plans now. Teach some. Absolutely. Can you cross train traditional activities that you’ve done so that even if you end up losing somebody, you’re having to furlough, somebody else can pick up the slack. You have time, get better. Watch YouTube videos, watch training videos from your vendors and others as well. Become experts on the on the products that you were selling and installing.

David Avrin:
Reach out to all your past customers or clients who loves you. Here’s the other thing is whoever loves you, do you have endorsement quotes from them? Not something written notes. So Jiffy Insulation is one of the best ever? No. Get him on video. That that’s come to do that. Good. Ask him to do if they would do a video testimonial, you know, say, oh you’ll give, you know, Starbucks gift cards or something for, for whoever will do it. I when I came out with my last book, my new book, Why Customers Leave. I was doing a presentation and I knew I needed to get some endorsements. They said, I get done. I said, okay. For the first ten people, that would give me a great endorsement on video, gets a free book, you know. And so they come and. Hi. I just saw David Average speak at our event. Oh my God. He was so good. I learned so much. He was so. Funny, I couldn’t believe anyway. He was awesome. Like one of the best speakers I’ve ever seen. Here’s a book.

Travis Pankake:
Oh, darling, by the way, and I’m still waiting for my autographed copy, you know, get them or would have done it. Just saying.

Various:
Back there yet. Get him or get him.

David Avrin:
Or did the did the the forward to my last book. My book before this one as well. But yeah, he probably would’ve but he’d make a lot more money than me. But he will do. That’s a whole other conversation. Don’t take me off task here.

David Avrin:
But but there’s things that we can do. Are you writing articles, writing blogs. The top ten mistakes people make in hiring there, their insulation or here’s the top five problems your building will have with inadequate insulation. It write articles for people, make videos, do funny tick tock videos. What I’m saying is that there are things that need to get done. I remember when I was 16 years old, as we all do work in some crappy fast food restaurant job, which many of us did. And I remember my my. Piece of crap. 17 year old assistant manager who would walk around going. Are you bored? Do you need something to do? And God forbid. We did. Because we’d be cleaning toilets. We’d be scrubbing baseboards. There’s always something to do. Yeah, I think this is the time that we can deputize, cross, train, repurpose the people that you’re already paying. Give them something meaningful to do. And by meaningful, I mean something that will help build your business marketing, create a new marketing campaign, create a new design, a new display or something else. Things can get done.

Don Clymer:
In our last podcast, we talked about social media and how important that is linked in for the business owners. I mean, they should be blowing that up right now. Agree or not?

David Avrin:
So, yes, but it’s the or. Yes. And is that. We’ve learned that. Couple of rules in social media. Number one, if you want people to be interested, you have to be interesting. This isn’t content for the sake of content.

David Avrin:
Don’t just fill it up or we’ve got to be Blyer. We got a blog every day. But if you know anything worth reading people, you’re going to teach people to ignore most of what you have to say. I’m a pig. Listen. Today it’s video, video, video, video, video. Did I mention that you should do video? And there’s things that are that are that are visually interesting. There’s conversations that you can have. And here’s the other reality. You don’t have to be great.

David Avrin:
Just be interesting. People like I’m not good on video. I hold up a video camera. Somebody says, oh, my God, that was so good. Thank you so much. I pull up my phone. So would you say that again? And I’m like, oh, I’m horrible on that. And I look at my said, listen, if it sucks, I won’t use it. And then I just point I said, stop right there. Right. Or get a selfie stick. Don’t hire a crew. I mean, you won’t talk about people were hurting. It’s video production companies. We don’t need it. We have high def cameras on our phone. Yeah, I’m personally I’m a I’m a horizontal person forever. I’ve said don’t shoot vertical video. Unfortunately, now with Instagram and everything else they want you to do. Vertical video did not know. That doesn’t matter. No matter. Just just talk. Yeah. Tell something. Be honest. Do profiles are your people.

Don Clymer:
I was just gonna ask. Should they be doing a hey get to know ABC insulation and talk about how they started and that stuff.

Various:
Is that. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah the answer is yes, and. And always assholes here you know me.

David Avrin:
Two really quick stories. Two years ago I was I was in London and having dinner with a family of somebody I knew and they’re 60. I can tell the story on stage because I think is a good one. And remember, there’s 16 year old daughter and he was liberty. It’s kind of interesting, but he called her Libbey and she was just mortified because she had this big zit on her nose and she was just like a mess. And her mom says, Libbey, dear, here’s something you need to understand.

David Avrin:
People don’t care what you look like. They only care what they look like. Don’t be don’t be so worked up is like we said that you would you would worry less about what people thought about you if you realized how little they think of you, right. Yeah. Work out how little often they think of you. So the point is, it’s not that we don’t I’m sorry. I don’t want to get to know my installation company people, but it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t tell the story. Just be interesting to just be fun.

David Avrin:
Whether it’s one of those music videos where every where they’re walking through the camera, every time they go to the corner, somebody else is singing a part of a song. That stuff is fun. It just makes you real. Yeah. Makes you human. Relatable. If it looks like a sales training video, nobody cares. When I post things, I’ve got a great social media following and I post things about my business. Nobody cares. But I post something crazy about my kids. It it lights up. No, if I it when you post about sausage turtles.

Various:
Yeah. There you have me that almost like I am making. No I did one time I posted I think I like a canvas spaghetti o’s and I threw a hot dog in it and took a picture and I said Follow me for more recipes.

David Avrin:
The thing that people see about me, and I know I’m a business guy. I speak on business, but my stuff online. I just realized if you want people to be interested, you have to be interesting. So I put crazy things and silly things. And every fourth or fifth, I’ll throw something about my business. But I do it strategically. I still try to make it entertaining because you want to give people a reason to come back. Yeah, but that’s also a strategic decision. We’ve got time right now. So let’s say you deputise one of your office workers and you bring her into the office or you get her on on on face time or zoom and say, you know, I see something in you. I think you could do. I think you could play a really good role for us. Oh, really? You know, flatter him. Give me an extra dollar an hour or whatever and say, would you like to be our social media manager? And it like sometimes I’m like, oh, my gosh, I would love to have a discussion among your team.

David Avrin:
Who do we want to be? How often do we think we need to post? What would it be? Is there. Hey, just post stuff. I’m seeing things on Entertainment Tonight. There was a guy who was the security guard of the cowboy.

Don Clymer:
Yes, I see that.

David Avrin:
And he’s he’s like bhau he’s the only guy there. So now he’s their social media manager. He they got national attention because he’s just posting funny things.

Travis Pankake:
They were better at it than we are. Right. Yeah.

David Avrin:
There was some company that had a marquee out in front of their building that they, you know, with the magnetic letters and you could change it. And they just had some crazy something every day. But people got used to the fact that was funny. I’m not saying everybody has to be funny, but I’m saying you have to be interesting. And so I love the idea of ramping up your social media, but just have a plan. And the plan is who do we want to be? And then they start hearing from you at regular intervals. That’s why I throw it means I throw videos and others because I want people go. You know, I heard about you or somebody somebody forwarded me something that you did or I’ll do a podcast with my R value friends. And I’m not a celebrity. I’m good at what I do not, but I’m good at what I do. And you guys are good at what you do and the people listening are good at what you do. But your biggest challenge is anonymity. If they don’t know who you are, they can’t buy what you have. So I once again, a long answer. I think it’s a great time to start being active on social media. Just don’t be boring. Yeah. Just don’t be bored.

Various:
You know, speaking of podcasting, are you speaking of boring? I’m sorry. Go ahead. Are you still doing podcasts? No, I. I stopped because I noticed. Realized I had tens of listeners. Because I didn’t have me on enough. No, no.

David Avrin:
I had one called the very visible business podcast. I interviewed some of the some of the greatest people that Jeffrey get him heard some of those as well. And I just realized I was one of a million. I like yours because it’s very, very industry specific. You’re talking to your people. I’m trying to talk to the broader business. I could’ve kept doing it. I like I said, I think my interviews were great. I think they’re I love this venue. I love not having pre prepared questions and just having a good conversation. I think the best podcast I ebos do this really well. I think the best podcasts are having an interesting conversation and inviting people to listen in. Yeah, that’s it. As opposed to being so formal. Well, thank you so much for being. Which is probably you’re going to say at the end here anyway. But so what I think I’m going to do and should do it. Rorris Well and and so funny is we’re talking everybody sort of listening in. Once again, you’re listening to David Avrin. If you wanna learn more, you can look him up at visibility, international dot com. Know what I think I’m gonna do is I think I’m going to read because I’m on C sweet radio. I’m on Apple iTunes. I’m everywhere. But I think I to do right. Just talk for ten minutes and then I do Q&A.

David Avrin:
So I’m actually partnering with a company who has an app thing is called our Viddy and I’ll go come back on it where people can ask questions about customer experience or something and they’ll be pre-recorded and I’ll have mine mean I’ll just do a thing, talk for a while. So let’s go to. Let’s go to the phones for questions. Yeah. Jackson in Fort Wayne, Indiana, has a question. Boom. Put him up on the screen. You see a video. He’s on his own phone asking a question and then I’ll answer it. And I don’t even think. I don’t even think I’m in I’m in a preview the questions and then we’ll also. But I’ll do it live. And then other people can text in their questions or do whatever else. But I’ll make sure anything recorded isn’t inappropriate. But and then just answer questions. When do you when’s it gonna be. Oh God. I’m so busy right now with my non travel. Somebody said yes. They said, are you free tomorrow? I actually got three flights tomorrow. And she says, Really? I said, no, I don’t have anything. I’m just don’t think I would have do besides working. Is my wife giving me projects because I keep following her around the house or I’d like you have something to do. Like you’re pretty. Leave me alone.

Don Clymer:
I’ve never got faster responses for from invitations for a podcast than the last two weeks. Hey, do you want to do. Yes.

Don Clymer:
Yes. I’m sure you know who I am. Sure.

Don Clymer:
Well, you know, we could go through that that formal thank you and everything, but you kind of go out and do it and then people are going to go.

David Avrin:
That’s exactly what he said. You should know you’re fine to do it up because also because you’re safe. And if people want to get a hold of you, Dave, how would they do that?

Travis Pankake:
So you go you know, you say that, but I don’t think we’re gonna do that because I kind of see a theme of about every six, eight, 10 weeks or we’re going to have to come back to you with more inspiration like it did.

David Avrin:
Let’s just make a regular conversation. Let’s be let’s let’s let’s put Joe Rogan on notice.

Don Clymer:
Hey, let’s do this. When you release your new podcast where people can call in and video and and do questions, let’s do one with our customers.

David Avrin:
Absolutely. What we’ll do, we’ll do the the customer experience advantage with David Avrin. The insulation version. Yes. With our friends. Yeah. Absolutely. I like it. I could do that. I can do industry specific versions. Here’s the thing that I would love to plug in. Not because it’s but because I think it’s the most meaningful work that I’ve ever done. I launched an initiative that I would look at. Nobody listening is going to hire me for speaker or anything else. And I enlisted. If this is all that, if this alone gives you some tips to help you financially to work on your personal bills and defer that to help cash flow, to help your people do that for them so they can stay loyal and they can maybe accept a reduction or you can repurpose them to help build your business then. And you never hear from me again. And I never hear from you.

David Avrin:
I feel like I’ve done my work and this is the time to help and to reach out and help people build their businesses because they’re really good people trying to support their families. And you are some of them, and I’m one of them as well. But I would love before we’re done to. To talk about this initiative that I’ve launched, because I think it’s the most powerful work I’ve ever done. And it’s in this there’s very little money. So it’s not not that issue. Years, four years. I’ve spoken organizations, 24 countries around the world. Actually, this morning I just booked a gig in October in Dubai. So little geographic name dropping. So I travel around the world. Twenty four countries. But when I get done on stage, what I get all the time is people saying, so what’s next? Like, how do we keep the conversation going? Like, I don’t want to lose momentum. And traditionally I said you could buy my book. But what I realized in that book, by the way, is why customers leave and how to win them back available also in Kindle and audio book. Nice I Amazon.com. But I had to really think about that. Like what? How do we keep people focused on on providing a better customer experience? And I’m not talking about customer service. I’m saying how do we become remarkably easy to do business with, which is what we talked about back in January. And so I set about sort of creating this initiative that I launched a couple of months ago called the Customer Experience Advantage Morning Huddle. And it’s a it’s a weekly conversation. And so what I love right now is I’ve got companies weren’t were translated into five languages.

David Avrin:
It’s in Hindi now. It’s in Spanish and it’s being translated into Mandarin Chinese. And then we’re going to do Russian and German because people just watch a seven minute video. It’s me challenging them on something, one of their mindsets. Here’s how we do business. Here’s why we restrict access to real people. Or here’s the danger of being overly familiar with some of our customers and clients that we think are our friends. But here’s the choices that they have. And it’s business. It’s not motivation. We don’t need motivation. And it’s a seven minute video that’s delivered once a week and they watch it as a team. Right now, they’re watching it remotely and then they’re having a conversation onscreen about it. And then it’s a it’s a 20 minute conversation. The whole thing is really 20 minutes once a week on the schedule. Sometimes the best ideas come from your own team, your own staff about what we could do different or better or faster or smarter and be more competitive. This is actual structure to make it happen. It’s on the calendar. It’s once a week. It’s a 20 minute conversation with all of your team members. You get to as a standing meeting, you could do it virtually, but it’s called the customer experience advantage.

David Avrin:
Morning Huddle. And I would love you to take a look at it. If you go to the Web site, customer experience advantage dot com. That’s it. No, just w w w Duqu customer experience advantage dot com. There’s some sample videos, but I’ve had the best time my career. I mean, like I told my wife, I said this is my business for the rest of my for the rest of my life. And we’ve got we’re talking to two companies in India. We’re talking to two companies in in Germany right now. We’re subtitling it. Just schedule some of those. Great. Conversations with, shall we say, some, we understand this.

Don Clymer:
It’s just as tailor made for each company. It’s not prerecorded video.

David Avrin:
No, it is. It is prerecorded. Oh, yeah. OK. That’s the thing. So what I’ve done is I like every week I come up with a new subject. Like, how do we better understand the filter that our younger workers and customers are to help connect with them better? Or how do we. I mean, just every week I write a new script. I get in front. I’ll show you here. And I think you can see it for those watching. There’s my white screen here, my office. And. And I record this video. And then I spend a day editing it and putting in some images. And I actually create a little facilitator Skype with sample questions. And I get three companies right now that they rotate every week. Somebody else leads the discussion. A great idea. And it’s 20 minutes. Yes. Oh, you’re providing the content to inspire the conversations. That’s exactly it. As they say nowadays, that verbiage is done for you. And so I have it all. It’s done. It’s ready. And and it’s, I think, the most meaningful work that that I’ve done. So I would encourage you, if you’re listening, take a look at it. For literally four companies under 50 employees. It’s ninety nine dollars a month. That’s it. I mean, nothing for 50 employees. I mean, that’s it. So, you know, cheapo.

David Avrin:
But my my goal my attention is to have, you know, tens of thousands of people watching me every week giving them an important lesson. And there’s good stories and things to keep it interesting. Yeah. I want to look into it for sure. I think that. Be great. You go, well, this is goodbye. But it’s a city. You know what? I’m getting a little misty eyed into my yard. I enjoy your time, gentlemen. It’s been a pleasure as it is.

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EPISODE 07

Become an Efficiency Expert with Jeremiah Bryant, COO of Thrice Energy Solutions

April 2020  | 49:48

How much do you know about the building you are insulating?

Join Travis Pankake, Aaron Franzen and Ryan Stewart as they discuss the inside and out of the inside of homes with Jeremiah Bryant, COO of Thrice Energy Solutions. Jeremiah comes from 4 generations of drywall experts and he uses that expertise to consult with clients of all kinds on the best solutions to keep their homes energy efficient and safe. If you’ve ever wondered about HERS ratings and raters and how you can educate clients properly on energy efficiency, this is the episode for you. PLUS! Jeremiah explains why he buys through distribution, how it keeps his costs fixed and helps him serve his clients better.

Thrice Energy Solutions is Oklahoma’s premier insulation and builder services contractor. Providing superior solutions for spray foam, fiberglass, and cellulose insulation as well as seamless rain gutters, fireplaces, house wrap, HERS Ratings, blower door testing, and more.

Transcript Details:

2:20 – Jeremiah’s expertise goes back to being a 4th generation drywall guy

6:15 – It is alarming how little companies who are doing insulation know about the building envelope

11:04 – The value of buying through distribution

13:50 – Re-educating the market about how all of the trades work together to build a better house

21:57 – Are you an insulator or an energy advisor?

25:01 – Is being a HERS rater a conflict of interest?

30:07 – Every home warrants an evaluation of what product is best

38:49 – Should I focus on new construction or existing homes?

Season 1, Episode 7 Transcript

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He’s an angry elf.

You had to go there.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

911. I’d like to report shots fired.

This is the one and only the original podcasts where you can find yours and your business’s true value. You’re listening to our value brought to you by America’s insulation source, Idei Distributors. You want to hear from the best contractors, suppliers and consultants that dedicate themselves to more than just survival in the business world. Industry professionals that are dedicated to excellence in every aspect of their business. Our value has all here to share that same motivation and knowledge with you. Tune in and grow more successful, profitable, educated and recognized business. Listen to the Value podcast to become the industry leader in your market. Find your value with our value.

Travis Pankake:
I’m Travis Pankake sales and trading here at IDI alongside my co-host, Aaron Franzine. Guys, what’s happening coming up today on the podcast. We actually have one of our customers, Jeremiah Bryant of Thrice Energy Solutions, all the way up here from Oklahoma City, as well as an IDI legend, Brian Stewart.

Ryan Stewart:
Hello. Howdy. Howdy, partners.

Travis Pankake:
Jeremiah, why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background and why you got to where you’re at today?

Jeremiah Bryant:
I started in drywall actually as a fourth generation drywall contractor. Insulation was that wasn’t in Oklahoma City. This was. That’s correct. So I was I’m a transplant to Oklahoma from Indiana, a little town called Morgantown, Indiana. So drywall was kind of our background. But I you know, I grew up in construction. I was familiar with the insulation trade, moved Oklahoma in 2007, had a few just various jobs in construction in the oilfield, worked back in Indiana. Again, I spent two years there. I kind of took part ownership of the family business in drywall, worked there, kind of growing that business and getting a more hands on with the business side of things. Now, I was right about David when the economy kind of took it took a dump. Right. So, yeah. So, you know, in 2007 through 2009 was was pretty rough. So we we kind of went through that pretty tough period. And I kind of learned a little bit about lean business practices just through some hands on, you know, having to deal with it. Real life experiences. Right. So I moved back to Oklahoma. My wife and I bought a house there and I actually got a job working as a production position, foreign insulation contractor and kind of learn that side of the business. And that was, you know, my intro to spray foam. I I’d never seen it before. And just, you know, we thought it was the coolest thing we’d ever seen. So we started our business in 2016 after some things just didn’t pan out at the company I was working for. And, you know, we kind of started the way everybody does, really didn’t have any business getting into it and just kind of jumped in with both feet.

Travis Pankake:
You had a plan. You had it all laid out. You know exactly what you were doing, I bet, right?

Jeremiah Bryant:
Yeah, we were. We were just absolutely excellent from day one for sure.

Aaron Franzine:
You get your business entities set up and just take home bags of money. Yeah.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Just start shoveling cash in. That’s right.

Aaron Franzine:
When you were in that drywall back in the day, did you actually were you a labor to you? Did you tape and hang? And did you ever get get dirty right in the mud? Yeah, all in the mud.

Jeremiah Bryant:
So we grew up I grew up in a pretty, pretty conservative Christian background. And so we never tell that by meeting you we were home. Wow. We were home schooled. And so we spent I think by the time I was 12 or 13, we were we got up at six or seven o’clock in the morning. We went to work. We did our school work when we got home. So, yeah, I hung sheet rock taped, textured, say that you name it. We did it standing’s probably the best. Oh yeah. That’s that’s definitely a reason to look elsewhere for employment since you’re in town.

Travis Pankake:
I got stuff at the house. You know your expertise. Yeah. Just saying we could possibly knock this out in a day or two. Yeah, for sure. I can get you some numbers, Ryan.

Aaron Franzine:
Through his phone, through the drywall might to patch that up. Well, don’t tell anybody else. Keep it. He’s an angry elf. Had to go there already. Absolutely. Absolutely. Nine one one. I’d like to report shots fired.

Travis Pankake:
So, anyways, Jeremiah, getting back to your story, interrupted time. Not me.

Jeremiah Bryant:
So, you know, two thousand sixteen. Oklahoma’s economy was pretty flat for the most part. And we didn’t really know a lot getting into it. But I spent a lot of time kind of learning the building science. Matter of fact, that the next week after we started our business, I went and joined a class for the Herr’s program for the home energy rating system and took that class and then took BPI and then took Energy Star and was just really trying to get a good grasp of the science behind insulation and how to actually approach things not just simply from an insulation contractor side, but, you know, from actual solutions, as you know, a building assembly as a whole. And really kind of that’s where I really started falling in love with that. You know, prior to that, you know, insulation. It could’ve been anything. You know, as we just we started a business. I had a business. I had two business partners. And that was just I was already working in it. So there was no big reason for us picking insulation. But after getting into the home energy rating program and getting my Herr’s license, getting into BPI and, you know, I just really fell in love with the building science stuff and a lot of the energy conservation stuff, you know, just really it’s it’s a big puzzle when you start digging into a building assembly and trying to, you know, each each situation is significantly different. And so that’s really where I think our business really started to take off in a lot of different directions. Where we opened. We do we have a home energy rating division now. We blower door test a lot of houses. And but that was really where I started to get a passion for it and really felt like a. Running at that point and where I feel like we really set ourselves apart in our market was the building science when you started doing that.

Travis Pankake:
Did you see that already as a value added to your business? Or was this just kind of a way for you to learn it to, you know, help grow your own? You know what I mean?

Jeremiah Bryant:
I mean, it’s so scary to say, but honestly, I just. I did it cause I didn’t know anything. It felt.

Aaron Franzine:
You started an insulation business and you went to classes to learn about insulation.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Yeah. No, I mean, that is a really scary statement. But, you know, to say I didn’t know anything, you know, had worked in the industry. I’d worked for other contractor. But it is it is alarming how little most of the companies doing insulation actually understand about the building on the slope.

Ryan Stewart:
Well, and that gives you the opportunity to prove your work, right? Right.

Jeremiah Bryant:
So we’re you know, we’re in it. I’ve already worked in it. I’d been around other contractors. I was having you know, I was apprehensive to just jump, you know, take off and start growing this business. I wanted to know everything I could. You know, I’m a pretty conservative person. I didn’t want to just, you know, saying you want to jump in here young at the time, too, and just started a family. So. Right. It was I was sensitive, too. I was 26 years old and I needed it to work. We had just had our therapy and my wife and I had just had our third kid. We’d just bought a house. You know, I needed to make sure this wasn’t all going to blow up in my face. And and and now, having been in the industry for a while, I’m looking around and realizing that for the most part, it’s business as usual for guys to not have is as much of an understanding about the industry as they should. All right. Most guys go out there, they buy an insulation truck and they just start put it in the walls, you know? And so that’s where we really I wasn’t willing to accept running a running a business and having that little of knowledge about it.

Aaron Franzine:
When I was a contractor, I thought I can outwork anybody. All my competitors. I’ll just outwork them. You know, I was young and you can’t just outwork everybody. You need to understand the business. You need to be good at sales. You need to be good at making connections. You need to be good at handling situations. You know, that’s I feel like that’s a lot of the industry right now is you. There’s a lot of good workers. We were talking earlier, a lot of good sprayers, lot of people who know how to install it, but maybe lack in that building science portion of it, you know, lack in the business management portion of it. And those things are as important as anything.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Well, I think we’re getting asked harder questions every year. The consumer as a whole is. Oh, yeah. The Internet. Right. You know, there’s this there’s access. And I you know, I make this joke all the time, but access to information in America is, you know, it’s unrivaled. But the problem is, is it’s access to good information and bad information. Wrong information, access to all information. We get asked a lot of tough questions. One of the things that I did just to try to help arm our sales force was I had them take the Herr’s class because it’s like, guys, you know, the consumer is going to ask a lot of difficult questions. Spray foam has got a lot of good publicity and a little bit of bad publicity at times, you know, and so occasionally a customer is going to say, hey, we’ve heard of an issue with a house that was spray foamed and and they’ll lay out a scenario. And and, you know, we have to be ready to understand their concerns and understand the situation that they’re talking about and what led to those things. Because, you know, unfortunately, there’s a lot of states and Oklahoma is one of them that that there’s not building regulation is is is a little bit behind the curve. And we’re trying to we’re trying to you know, we want to keep regulation is that, you know, as effective as possible for, you know, we want builders to make money. We want consumers to be able to afford a home. So we’re trying to be proactive about educating all the trades. You know, HVAD contractors, they do things that affect the home. And everybody, you know, everybody involved in building the house, framers, plumbers.

Travis Pankake:
We talked about that a little earlier before we were on air. Just being a better partner. Right. A partnership.

Jeremiah Bryant:
And that was our goal, as we know. We’re trying to we’re trying to do a better job of being that partner, you know, being able to evaluate a builders project, each individual home and say, you know, this this is exactly what needs to happen and just kind of be a turnkey solution for them so that they can rest easy knowing that we have the expertise to make that project work effectively for their end-user.

Travis Pankake:
Right. Right. So you’re almost four years in business now. You grew pretty, pretty rapidly.

Travis Pankake:
Right. And a lot of that probably stemmed from your understanding that knowledge was power. Right. You needed to understand the basics to get into just the building trades, which you kind of came up with, you know, growing up in the drywall business. Now, growing into the size that you are, you certainly have an opportunity to buy direct. Correct. Where do you see the value in distribution? Because you you’ve made some statements just in the short time I’ve known you, just about some of the things that you like about, you know, distribution and idei and how, how and why that works for you. Can you go a little deeper on that?

Jeremiah Bryant:
Yeah, absolutely. And for us, we did. I mean, you’re correct. We grew extremely fast. We were, I think, 2016. We did a couple hundred thousand dollars in sales. 2017, we did a couple of million. And then you fast forward to today. I mean, we have over 56 employees and we’re as far as I know, we’re the largest insulation contractor in Oklahoma as far as Oklahoma. Stand alone. And you know that that happened, you know, June will be four years. So we’re not even at the four year mark. But one of the things that I really tried to put a big focus on was making sure, you know, scaling up was hard enough. You know, we put we put some things in place for, you know, how OK, operationally, this is how this is going to work. And then that worked great at two hundred thousand dollars in annual sales and at two million, it blew up in our face, you know. And so. So I really early on had a strong focus on, OK, if I’m going to implement something, it needs to be scalable. But anytime that I approach any situation like that, I wanted to make sure that could also scale back down because, you know, fixed costs are fixed costs. And so we’ve been operating out of out of a six thousand square foot warehouse since inception. We got a we bought this old building and had a burnt roof. We put a new roof on it. You know, it was a it was a cheap, easy warehouse to pick up. We put our meat. I mean, me and my business partners ourselves went out there on the first week and then we put a roof on this thing, you know, and it’s it’s cheap. And so we were actually purchasing direct when we started. And as labor or as material became harder to come by and there’d be a pinch on production. You know, one manufacturer had a large fire at their facility and that put a pretty big pinch on it. We really started running into extended lead times where we were ordering, you know, really maximum capacity because we were sometimes 10, 14 day lead time and it really started to put a pinch on our cash flow. And even then, I don’t know that I really understood, you know, the gravity of the situation. It was just, you know, we were in a pinch and we were doing what we had to do. But, you know, you fast forward about a year from that and, you know, allocation continued to be a pretty big burden. And that’s when we met Ryan and started buying our son material through IDI. And and it just kind of snowballed from there as we started to realized that there was an infinite amount of value to us in that usually we could get next day order because the distributor was five miles down the road. And and I’ve, you know, since then were, you know, a million dollars a month in sales. And I still use that same six thousand square foot warehouse. And it’s a fixed cost. If the economy does start to turn down, if our if our production takes, you know, it takes a little bit of a hit due to slower building or, you know, the slower inventory movement in the market, then I’m not stuck with this extra facility that I’ve purchased or signed a lease on anymore. And so that was that was one of the big strong focuses that we had, is let’s make sure we can scale down. And it made more sense to lean on a distributor and and use their facility than it did to continue to spend our cash and our capital and our time trying to build a facility that would help us hold inventory well in excess of what we had.

Travis Pankake:
So basically, I mean, using distribution is healthy to just keep your costs fixed. You understand what you know, what’s coming in, what’s coming out at an easier rate because you’re essentially using right and warehouse through distribution.

Jeremiah Bryant:
And not just that. I mean, it’s it’s it’s helped with cash flow. Yes, absolutely. You know, our days and inventory is much lower than it was whenever we were buying from manufacturer or buying straight direct from the manufacturer.

Aaron Franzine:
If you can’t store it at our warehouse, Ryan, I’ll just put it in his garage for you.

Right. Absolutely. I already do. I think it’s why you’re a legend.

Travis Pankake:
I want to circle back to a conversation we had earlier, again off line. But you just kind of talked about how to help kind of re-educate the market specifically as it pertains to talking to builders and how other trades come into play and how one of the things in insulator can do is they actually have one of the biggest impacts on that house. Can you kind of go a little bit deeper into that?

Jeremiah Bryant:
Yeah. And, you know, just kind of to reiterate what I was talking about, you know, right now there’s a lot of national studies being put out that are talking about, you know, the cost of building. And, you know, I think the study said 75 percent of people buying a home and two in 2020 needed to spend two hundred and fifty thousand dollars or less. And obviously, we’ve been through a lot of different things, tariffs, you know, things of that nature that that have driven some cost of the materials. And, you know, we’ve had a labor pinch. Labor’s labor is costing more than it was, you know, five even thought three years ago. Freight. Freight. Right. That’s a huge one. You know, so. So these these costs obviously these these costs are carried to us, you know, our customer, the builder, as well as us as trade, you know. And so we’re all trying to navigate that. But, you know, you know, ultimately, you know, my conversation, the conversation that I try to have regionally and nationally with anybody that’ll listen is that, you know, ultimately that cost to the consumer is a crucial part of how we can continue to to keep homes affordable. And if you look at a lot of states in the country that are following 2006 or 2009, which is a still prominently used building code, especially on the energy side of things, we’re doing things that that ultimately are affecting the cost of the home very little. But saving the end-user 30 to 40 percent on their energy costs, you know. And so if you know how much more affordable what your first house than you had, you been able to pay two hundred dollars a month less than utility costs. You know, it’s it’s weatherstone, you guys. My wife and I, the first house we bought, we moved in and we didn’t we didn’t know, you know, we just we bought a house. It seemed like a good deal. It was priced well for the for the location. And that summer we got an electric bills. Three hundred and eighty dollars. And I told my wife, well we we can’t afford to live here, we can’t afford an extra three utilities were killing you. And so we, we did some energy efficient upgrades. And, you know, we’ve done quite a bit at this point and that we live in that same house and it’s 100 bucks a month now. Well, you knew a good you knew a good insulator. I knew a decent I knew a decent person to call.

Aaron Franzine:
So. So somewhere I heard that insulation cost is two to four percent of a new home. Is that right? Is that what you’ve heard? I can’t cite it. I can’t remember where I heard it. I’ve heard two percent, two percent, two presents, a number. That’s it. Two percent very near and gave you two to three hundred dollars a month on your first new home or whatever.

Jeremiah Bryant:
I mean, obviously, we’re comparing a worst case scenario here. My house was built in 92 by a track builder. I mean, it had the worst windows. It had the lowest. It’s a cookie cutter home. Yeah, I had the lowest efficient furnace and air conditioner you could get. So, you know, as a worst case scenario. But but even then, I mean, when we look at so we’re doing some some pretty pretty easy insulation upgrades as well as other things that are that are putting houses, scoring 30 to 40 percent better on the Herr’s index. And, you know, I won’t spend a bunch of time explaining the Herr’s index, but, you know, it’s I think most guys in the insulation industry or at least familiar with it. But, you know, in in hers, the lower the score, the better. And we’ve got some production builders that they might spend an extra 30 percent of, you know, on their insulation costs and and cut the score, you know, by 40 points. And that that drastically affects that cost for that end user.

Jeremiah Bryant:
So that’s and that’s what we’re trying to promote, is that, you know, while we can’t really control the cost of building at this point, you know, that the costs are going to have to to rise a little bit because, you know, we obviously do need to make some profit. We already have about construction. It’s a lower margin, you know, industry for sure. So we can’t just continue to eat these costs. But as insulation contractors, we can directly impact the cost to the consumer and keep housing affordable. Well, you know, while the cost of the house may have to rise slightly, you know, that that cost to the consumer can be manageable. Almost offsets. Right. In some regards.

Travis Pankake:
So, you know, with that example you just gave. Is that something that as you’re being a partner of your industry, are the builders open to? These ideas are you know, obviously, we’re we’re thinking about the end user in mind.

Travis Pankake:
But, you know, as you partner with some of your builders, are they in tune with that same kind of line of thought?

Jeremiah Bryant:
I think it’s I think it’s hit and miss, but I do think that. I do think for the most part, a lot of builders are kind of on the defense right now, you know, they’ve seen their profits slashed quite a bit with with a lot of these things that hit, you know, the lumber industry saw significant price increases. And I think they’ve been able to claw some of that back down. But so many different building products, concrete has risen and not just the labor alone. You know, just in labor alone, you know, we’ve we’ve seen these increases. And so I think it’s put builders a lot on the defense where this conversation is. It’s a difficult one to have because it’s difficult for them to get the price up. And that’s kind of what I talk to you guys about earlier than there’s. I think that there’s something fundamentally broken with the way that we value homes today. A lot of the things that we’re valuing are things like granite and and hardware and all these things that people can see stainless steel.

Jeremiah Bryant:
And so it’s hard for a builder to be ready to have that conversation about, hey, I want you to spend twice as much insulating this house on spray foam, because as far as the MLS, as far as the realtors are concerned, as far as inspectors are concerned, those aren’t the things that we’re comparing. Whenever we’re whenever we’re putting up comps for homes, they don’t even look at insulation.

Jeremiah Bryant:
You know, they’ll say if it’s a little bit low, hey, you need to add some. But ultimately, that doesn’t weigh in on the cost of the value right at home. And so whenever we’re doing comps, you know, we need a system in place to more accurately reflect the value of that home. And I think a huge part of the value of the home is what is it going to cost me to own energy bill? Right. Like, that’s that’s the cop. That’s the sticker on the new car. Right? The gas mileage. Right. And I know that, you know, I know that, you know, cars, we’ve got the gas guzzler tax, you know, and, you know, I don’t want to just be outlandish with suggestions. And I know California and a lot of ways, you know, people teams tend to shiver in this industry when you talk about California. But, you know, California has a great program in place where, you know, every home that’s sold, whether it be new or existing home, has to have a blower door test. And for me, as a consumer, that’s a number I want to know, you know, and obviously we cannot as hers raiders, as BPI analysts and, you know, all the guys studying these these houses and doing this testing, we can’t go in there and accurately tell you to the scent what your utility costs are. But it is it is impressive how how close we can get a lot of times to telling a customer this is, you know, marginally what you can expect to pay in gas and electric costs.

Aaron Franzine:
And whenever you ask gas mileage, usually the car sales rep is, well, how do you drive? You’ve got a lead foot, right? It’s like asking that with a house. You know, Travis takes like four to five showers a day, at least a bath at lunch. You know, that’s going to be all right.

Jeremiah Bryant:
And so you can’t predict the flavor. I cannot predict human behavior, but we can get really close, you know, basing it off of average human use. And so for us, you know, that’s something that we’ve tried to we’ve tried to speak with a lot of local realtors and try to get the consumer to understand that if you’re buying a house, you’re already paying for the inspection, you’re paying for a termite inspection. Why not hire, you know, a Herr’s rater, hire somebody to come out and do an energy evaluation, do an energy audit on the home?

Jeremiah Bryant:
You’re you’re going to pay two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for this house. You might want to know how much it’s really going to cost you. It could be a negotiation tactic. It could be something that you could say, hey, I want to buy this house, but the seller is going to need to fix this.

Ryan Stewart:
And this, you know, earlier when you said that that was kind of an aha moment for me, because you do pay for an inspection home inspector to come out and check it out. And I had I’ve never even thought of for an energy inspection of sorts to come out and let’s see how bad the House leaks are.

Jeremiah Bryant:
The wind is just terrible and it’s no different than any other inspection. You can request the seller to pay you and you can pay for it yourself. I can tell you right now for me, if I was buying existing home, I’d be happy to pay for it myself, just for the peace of mind, because it’s a huge unknown.

Travis Pankake:
Well, knowing you’re going to save money monthly, you know, in energy costs aren’t going down. So that’s an exponential gain, right? If you make your house more energy efficient using less. You’re going to save money more and more. Year after year. It’s one thing that can increase as far as a savings when you own a home. Have you had good luck with the real realtors and approaching them?

Jeremiah Bryant:
You know, I did it kind of just thinking. We know a lot of realtors. You know, we’ve worked with several who have called, you know, they’ve got a customer buying a home. And the home inspector said, hey, you know, need to have about six inches of insulation in the attic. So we’ve kind of have a working relationship with some of Marseille’s guys. I’ve talked with some of them quite regularly. And so we have had some luck. We’ve actually had quite a few customers just this year that have had us do an energy audit on a home that they were going to buy because and they paid for it way out of their own pocket, as far as I know.

Aaron Franzine:
So that’s the difference between owning a blow rig and blowing attics and and spray foam. Reagan going out and working hard and doing a good job, to being an expert, to being a steward of the industry, someone who’s knowledgeable, that’s providing solutions to their customers. I mean, that’s the line in the sand that I see that you’re a steward of. You’re a student of the industry in building science and all these different approaches versus I have a blow machine and a foam rag and I insulate houses.

Ryan Stewart:
Well, let’s let’s think about it. How many many times do we. How many people out there look going to an attic? Go look. You only got five and 1/2, six inches of insulation up there. We need to bring it up to an hour 38. Right. We still haven’t got to the root of the problem. Right. We just. It’s a Band-Aid. Yeah. We just put a Band-Aid on there. Brought it up to code. But we haven’t fixed anything yet.

Travis Pankake:
Right now, I know there’s somebody listening right now that says you do the insulation, you do the energy advising and the blower door and the nursery isn’t. Isn’t that a conflict of interest, Jeremiah?

Jeremiah Bryant:
That’s a question that we get asked pretty regularly. And as a matter of fact, no. And I think for maybe for some people that don’t really understand the process that we have to go through. I can see where they would where they would think that. But for the most part, the way the Herr’s program is written, where were data collectors? So we answer to what’s called a QAD quality or a quality assurance provider’s. What they are, they’re called. You know, we refer to them as our provider. So we go out to each site, whether it be an existing home, whether it be a new construction home. We take photos, videos. We record everything from the make and model of the dishwasher to the toy. We take a picture of the inside of the toilet tank to tell you. We tell the provider how many gallons per flush that toilets rated that we count LCD light bulbs. You know, for the most part of Rayder is simply documenting what is in the field. And when we test, you know, we have to provide photos of the blower door setup and everything. And so when we when we send all this off, we can’t provide that document that her certificate. We have to send all this off to a quality assurance provider. And they they record that information and then they give us what we refer to as print permissions for us to send that report in. So there’s a lot of checks and balances within resonates system that allows for us to to be safe in in both insulating a home as well as, you know, providing that data. Ultimately, it’s it’s a software and it’s a third party that’s providing this information.

Ryan Stewart:
On the retro side. You could you could actually test the house first. Right. Blow it or make it find where the leaks are at and then theoretically do it after you’ve made the repairs, improve your work that you’ve proved and fixed what was wrong.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Well, and so that’s actually that’s actually the resonant standard for that. So, you know, we go out and we provide, you know, an upfront evaluation of the home we test and we’d say, you know, it obviously, you know, this house is leaky. This house needs this will make recommendations resonate. That requires us to make those recommendations based off of a cost benefit. So a lot of times, even though we’re an insulation contractor, you know, this is a great tool for us. A lot of times insulation, it’s not what they need. They might need a new furnace. They might need their ducts all sealed. You know, they might need a service that we have to refer them to an H vac contractor or a window contractor or somebody like that. So, you know, it’s a cost benefit analysis is the way we have to provide that information. And, yes, sometimes, you know, we say, hey, we can get some air sealing, we can do in some insulation. And then when we’re done, we retest and then we can quantify to the customer. This is you know, this is the difference between what you had and what you have now.

Aaron Franzine:
This is it’s a solutions provider, right? Right. Just an insulator. Not just doing fiberglass, not just in love with spray foam.

There are solutions provider.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Yeah. And that’s you know, that’s a that’s a tough one. You know, spray foam is kind of a hot commodity in insulation right now. You know, it’s a popular product. It is not one that we recommend for every job. And for that reason, we really try. Our goal has always been to provide the solution that is best for the consumer from a cost benefit analysis, whether it’s something we’re actually providing a her service on or not.

Aaron Franzine:
Right. The most value that you can get out of your dollar.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Exactly. Exactly. You know, I have a lot of people that, hey, we’re building a house and we want to use spray foam. And what do you think about that? And my first question is, how long are you going to live there? Because foam doesn’t have a two year or a Y or a three year or a liar for your or a. You know, if you’re 30 and you’re building a house, that’s awesome. Congratulations. But on average, in the U.S., people, people below the age of 60 buy a new home every three to five years. So if we’re talking about extended our ally for a product like spray foam, that does cost twice as much as fiberglass. It’s not always, you know, if we’re strictly. Talking about yourself, the only solution.

Travis Pankake:
So, Jeremiah, I know there’s lots of guys listening that are thinking to themselves, so I’ll just put it out there. Isn’t being a Herr’s rater kind of a conflict of interest?

Jeremiah Bryant:
We get asked that question quite a bit, actually. And so kind of the way the the resonant standards are sort of resonate being the governing body overseeing hers, raiders. For us, there’s a there’s quite a bit of checks and balances in place. So Herr’s raider is essentially a data collector. And we answer to what are referred to as providers. So there’s a third party entity that we provide the data in the field. Everything, pictures, videos, things as simple as the make and model of a dishwasher. All these different things. We collect data both with photographs, video evidence, as well as recording several forms we have to fill out and provide to them. A Rayder cannot provide a her certificate document to a customer. We have to send this off to a third party. And and then at that point, the provider will evaluate, ensure the accuracy of the data and then provide print permissions to a raider so that they can actually supply those documents.

Travis Pankake:
So essentially, you’re not. There’s no conflict of interest because it’s it’s third party check that’s audited.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Correct. And that’s that’s where people kind of get confused. People are like, well, it’s not really third party, is it? And so, yeah, we’re we’re simply getting the information for them. We’re on site. Our people are there. We’re getting the information. But the entity that actually provides those reports is third party.

Travis Pankake:
And I know you had a few things that you wanted to talk about. Why don’t you go ahead and bring those up now?

Aaron Franzine:
Yeah, well, I wanted to dive more into product mix and being being versatile and not just offering one product and with continuous insulation being not a hot button, but a more popular item and not just offering one thing and offering air sealing and some of those things. I just wanted to dive into that a little bit more and what your approach to that is.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Right. So I think and I think there’s a pretty you know, spray foam has been such a big movement. It’s been growing in popularity. A lot of guys are getting into the industry. They want to get into spray foam. It’s you know, it’s the hot new item. But, you know, I think there’s a lot of misconceptions about foam always being the right answer. And so a lot of the reasons that we add thrice energy solutions are try to focus so much on that product mix. And really understanding the science behind things is that there’s a lot of different ways to achieve energy efficiency. You know, we’ve we’ve seen plenty of net zero and positive energy homes that we’re insulated with fiberglass. Now, I know that there’s a lot of guys that they have their favorites. They’d rather do fiberglass. I’d rather do cellulose. They’d rather do foam. But I think what a lot of guys in the industry need to step back and understand is that every situation warrants an evaluation of the wall assemblies or the roof assembly of the H fact equipment, every component of the home. You know, it’s all working in tandem to provide a comfortable living space for the occupants. And, you know, the statement has been for so long to set the skies to yesterday. You know, the spray foam is the insulation of the future. And I believe strongly it’s the insulation of right now. I think that in the future we’re going to continue to see product innovation and the way that we insulate homes change and I think continuous insulation extra. And so, you know, the the data’s there when we do thermal imaging of of houses with exterior insulation and you see, you know, complete and, you know, thermal bridging is completely done away with at that point.

Travis Pankake:
So I think a combination of all the products to, you know, where they’re used, how they’re used when I use depending on your climate zone. All that makes a difference as well. It’s not one one product here is all right.

Jeremiah Bryant:
And that that’s absolutely you know it. And that’s why I say every every home, every building, it it it warrants an evaluation of what products can be used together. You know, we you go back to the to the resonant standards. If we go to an energy audit on an existing home, we know the first thing we do is we test the house. And then the way that we’re required by the organization to provide that information is from a cost benefit standpoint. And that’s what we’re trying to establish on a new construction home, is what is what is your what is your expectation with this home? Obviously, we want it to be as energy efficient as possible, but everybody shows up with a project, with a budget in mind, and that has to be taken into account. So we know what products can we use, what mix of products can we use?

Jeremiah Bryant:
Could it be a combination of fiberglass spray foam, continuous insulation, air sealing products, duct sealing products? You know, what can we do to get this house as energy efficient as possible and still keep a budget in mind?

Aaron Franzine:
Do you see more of this industry moving towards offsite, penalized type of work? I think assemblies and such. I think that’s penalization movement has it’s it’s definitely got a place in the market.

Jeremiah Bryant:
However, I think that whenever you really start getting into custom, people want to you know, they want a customized home. You know, they don’t want a one off menu. You’d want the same floor plan as every other house and they’re penalized, construction gets really expensive when you start customizing it. And so I think not to say that it will always have its place in the market. I mean, you know, those are it’s a solid it’s solid science. You know, it’s a it is a great way to build a house. But I think it’s pretty cost prohibitive. And that’s gonna be really one of its biggest limitations.

Travis Pankake:
Yeah. Is you say it’s limited just because of the, you know, whatever is prefab.

Jeremiah Bryant:
We’re already seeing so much data out, you know, from an NAHB about, you know, the the housing crisis, you know, housing affordability crisis. And so I think that while there’s some things out there that are great products, they’re great ways to do it. You know, we’re already having a budget crisis when it comes to what people can afford and we have to keep housing affordable. So that’s our big you know, that’s one of the big reasons why we’ve had such a huge focus on the building. Science on energy efficiency is that we are trying to keep that budget in mind.

Aaron Franzine:
Right. And the reason I bring that up is because this works always going to be it’s going to have some onsite element to it. Right. So even if things didn’t move towards paralyzed, there’s always going to be a place for spray foam because you still got to glue everything together you can. It’s versatile of what you can do onsite with a house and changes happen. Absolutely. Homeowners change this. Move this ball. Take this out. So, you know, those products are always going to be around. But I think it’s about finding the right place for the right product.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Yeah. And I think that that would be my, you know, encouragement to all insulation contractors as we we have to be focused on where the industry is going. But even then, you know, we’re not just insulating houses anymore. You know, the insulation trade has moved so far past simply insulating at this point. There’s so many like you said, we’re doing air sealing. We’re doing pressure barriers. We’re doing damage, we’re doing on foam. You know, we’re building demises walls, you know, and there’s a structural aspect to that. You know, there’s a lot of stuff that falls under the insulation contractor. And so I’ve always been a big proponent of, you know, people need to understand why they’re doing something. This is not this is not assembly line work that we’re doing.

Travis Pankake:
Which kind of falls back into place of, you know, your beginnings, you know, whether it happened on accident. But you’re diving into the building science, you know, being Herr’s rater, going through BPI training and all that. That background is, you know, as we talked a little bit earlier, not a lot of guys are jumping into that with that mindset. Right. With the why this is happening and then being an insulator, not only are you able to perform the work, but you’re able to adjust onsite, as Aaron was saying, with spray foam or whatever product choosing to solve the problem as well. Yeah, because you understand what’s happening or what could happen if you don’t insulated a certain way.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Right. Yeah, I don’t I mean, I never want to use scare tactics as a way to get something done, but I do think that a lot of guys need to be pretty conscious of the fact that I think I think that the liability for our trade is going to you’re going to see a pretty big increase in that.

Jeremiah Bryant:
You know, there’s Ken Allison actually was talking about, you know, that the most searched term in regards to how you can alisson the Ken Allison, you know, is that is my home making me sick. That’s been Googled more than is my home energy efficient. Is my home making me sick? You know, so a lot of these things we’re talking about, we’re making the house more energy efficient. There’s two sides to that. You know, we have to deal with indoor air quality. We have to deal with humidity in the home. We have to deal with moisture in the wall assembly. You know, there’s so many different things that we’re affecting whenever we start mixing these products together. And to not understand the effects of those things in the science behind it, there’s going to be an increase in liability to our trade. If guys aren’t careful, they’re going to wind up, you know, a house with mold or with issues where because they didn’t understand the science behind what they were doing, they just said, well, we’re gonna start throwing every energy efficient product in our arsenal at this thing and we’re gonna make it as tight as possible. And they don’t understand what other components of the home they’re affecting with that. It it’s gonna be at risk that I think it’s best to be proactive and for our trade to get out there, to get the knowledge, to get the understanding about it and and mitigate a lot of that risk.

Aaron Franzine:
Jeremiah, when you got into business, did you see yourself more in the retro retro fit space or new construction? What was your approach when you guys jumped into this?

Jeremiah Bryant:
I mean, I think we were focused more on new construction. Now, that being said, I think in the past two years we’ve made it. We’ve made a really big push on trying to understand more about existing homes in that market and being able to help those people. You know, a big part of where our Herr’s department is today is a lot of energy audits on existing homes that people call land. And, you know, unfortunately, because the consumer is limited on what they understand about how a house works 90 percent of the time we get a phone call and that’s all they say is, hey, I need more insulation. And my question is, is what we know. Where did you get kombai that information if you have a high electric bill? You know, most people immediate thought is, oh, I need more insulation and there could be a million different reasons why they actually. We have a high electric bill and it may have very little to do with insulation. You know, we go out there and put, you know, six, eight inches of more insulation in your attic. And, yeah, I’m an insulation contractor, so I just sold some insulation. But if I’m not providing a solution, how long can I hope to stay relevant in my industry? So for us, you know, it’s. Do your. Do you need new weatherstripping on your doors or your windows needing air sealed around? Is your air conditioner 25 years old and extremely inefficient? Is your use your ductwork is leaking into the attic. You know, I like to always go from it with let us do an energy audit first. Let’s let us evaluate your house. I’d love to sell you insulation. That’s what I make money doing. But at the end of the day, once again, if I’m not providing a solution, I don’t know how long I can hope to stay relevant in in our market. Yeah, you’ve got to get to the actual root of the problem. Right. Right. Right. And I think for the most part, everybody thinks that insulation is always the solution. And yeah, a lot of times it is. But a lot of times it’s not true.

Aaron Franzine:
If somebody is in a home and they have cold rooms and they talk about energy bills being too, who do they call like who do they search for? What would the first phone call be for someone who’s looking for help?

Jeremiah Bryant:
Most of the time, it’s somebody searching for an insulation contractor. I mean, that’s. And most of the time, unfortunately, what we see is that they get sold insulation.

Aaron Franzine:
Should that should that be I mean, if you’re talking to homeowners that have cold rooms and high energy bills. Who would you have them call?

Jeremiah Bryant:
I think that they should. I think that they should absolutely call thrice energy solution. I think they should call thrice energy solutions in Oklahoma City for sure, no matter what they’ve got.

Ryan Stewart:
They’ve got to start somewhere. Right. But the key is calling the right person that says, hey, let’s evaluate what the real problem is. Right. Because, again, back to what you were saying. Most people go out. It’s cold. I need more insulation. Only get six inches, whatever it may be. But we’re not fixing the problem with the right person. Wingo. OK, look, maybe the facies ducks leaking, right? We can we can as a as a writer and test in the house, we can actually figure out what that root of the problem is and you can direct them to exactly who they need to go to, what steps need to be done.

Jeremiah Bryant:
Well, it just it helps with you know, we don’t want to continue to create a negative stigma about, you know, insulation contract. You know, we’re not crooks. We’re not. I think for the most part, I don’t think that it’s predatory by any means. When they call an insulation contractor that maybe doesn’t understand, they’re like, well, we’ll put some translation in your attic. That’s going to help. And I really think that there’s several people that get into this trade without the understanding of it. And they they do. They are doing what they know to do. I just think we have to challenge our, you know, our contractors and our suppliers and everybody in the industry to know more than what we know.

Travis Pankake:
Well, it’s part of it’s about being a professional, trained educate. You know, that’s, you know, one of the biggest things we push when we, you know, either have customers that are just getting into the business or want to improve their current business as we train. And we we have classes, we you know, we further educate not only ourselves, but our customers. And, you know, getting back to again, I don’t mean to keep pushing on it, but there’s there’s a way that you were different from the beginning. You educated yourself. Right.

Jeremiah Bryant:
And I think that, you know, for us, you know, we want to get away from the term insulator. You know, somebody somebody said once, we’ve got to start focusing on being what I think that the industry has pushed us to be, which is, you know, building envelope specialist, you know, problem solvers. Right. You know, we need to understand everything from liquid water, drive to the assembly vapor, drive through the assembly, air through the assembly, thermo bypass to the assembly. You know, the bridging or convective heat, conductive heat. You know, there’s so many radio, you know, radiant heat. There’s so many different things that we have to understand to really be able to assess this. And so we really, you know, and I did that, you know, I and I did it mostly because I was scared of what I didn’t know. And I wanted to make sure I did. But it’s it’s something that I think, you know, we’ve got to we’ve got to regulate ourselves. You know, we’ve got to understand that because it’s going to be so much more beneficial to the industry and to enter the guys doing this whenever we can, you know, consistently provide a educated answer whenever a customer has a problem.

Aaron Franzine:
I think most homeowners would probably Google search, you know, lower energy bills and anything any number of people are going to come up from an HVAC guy to an insulator and they’re going to make a phone call and say, you think I have an HVAC problem? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Let me come out and evaluate. And it might totally be the wrong direction or same with an insulation contractor.

Jeremiah Bryant:
We see it with window contractors a lot. You know, people like a contractor be like, oh, I need new windows. You know, my electric bills are too high and, you know, and nine, you know. Ninety nine percent of door and window contractors out there are all about selling somebody some new windows.

Jeremiah Bryant:
That’s what they’re in business to do, you know, but. On average, in most houses, windows make up about nine to 10 percent of the entire exterior wall assembly. Nothing on the roof assembly. So even if we make your windows, even if we get you windows that are 80 percent more efficient than the windows that you have now, we’ve only addressed 10 percent of the wall assembly.

Jeremiah Bryant:
And so that’s we know that’s where I think. And that’s not to say that windows aren’t the problem, because sometimes they are. But we get a lot of customers that they just want new windows and they you know, so they’ve decided the windows are the problem. And, you know, we’ve had to have that conversation. Look, if you want new windows by new windows, but I’m not advising you that this is going to drastically affect your energy efficiency. What’s our value of three maybe? Right. Right. So even the best windows out there and like I said, it’s for the most part, unless you get in these really modern homes, for the most part, there’s not that much glass surf sitting the day. Usually air sealing around the windows is actually the big problem. We can air seal around any existing window. You know, barring that, the glass is missing from the window where we can air seal around any old, you know, window.

Aaron Franzine:
So would you have them reach out to a Herr’s rater if someone has problems with their house? Is that would that be the first step? So they don’t get the runaround and go through the HPC contractor, spend thousands of dollars. The problem doesn’t get addressed. OK, well, I guess I’ll move on to the next step. That’s an insulator. Go through that rigamarole. And the issue is never really addressed. I mean, they can make phone calls, phone call. And I’m just curious if that’s who you would have them reach out to or is that what they would the first step?

Jeremiah Bryant:
I think it would be I think it’s always the most advisable step because the Hirsche Ritter doesn’t have a dog in the fight, so to speak. They’re not making any money off of any of these trades. They’re simply providing the service of Yatta, doing the audit and saying, you know, this is what you need. So and there’s hurt writers in almost every market, so.

Aaron Franzine:
Right. And then that gives the homeowner choices. Right. They want to address windows, HHC, insulation, whatever it might be.

Ryan Stewart:
It’s like a third party evaluation is all it is, right? Yeah. Well, Jeremi, I think we’ve we’ve pulled enough information out of your brain for one or two days, just kind of went into a little bit longer podcast. But I think a lot of the information that we’ve talked about today is not only good for the listeners, but just, you know, people that want to maybe have a different approach with their business, you know, and just with what you’ve shared about kind of how you’ve gone about your business and how fast you’ve grown in a short period of time and pretty successful. Right.

Jeremiah Bryant:
And that would be, you know, for other insulation contractors. That would be my biggest takeaway is that I think a lot of guys worry about if I’m going to make this investment, if I’m going to spend my time learning all this, you know, how effective is this really going to make me in the industry? You know, we started our business in 2016 and we did a couple hundred thousand dollars in sales and we do over a million dollars a month in sales. Now, it’s it is the way to grow your business. You know, nobody appreciates working with a contractor more than someone who provides real answers. And that’s that’s what we’ve achieved doing exactly this. So I think it’s the only way to move forward for guys in the industry.

Travis Pankake:
Right. And you use the term yesterday, Off-Air proof of concept. Right. So it’s doing pretty well for you. Yep. Ryan, appreciate you bringing your boy, Jeremiah. Thank you. And being on the podcast. What do you think? I thought it was fun time. Lots information. Yeah, he were super nervous, I could tell before we started this, but he settled in nicely. Good job.

Yeah. Yeah, it’s a little crazy.

Travis Pankake:
So for those of you listening on a desktop or a computer, you can find our podcast at IDI-insulation.com Backslash. Our value. Or if you are on a mobile device, you can stream this on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, the iHeart radio app, Stitcher and Spotify. Thanks for listening.

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